The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

[Triple_R]

Sorry for the long wait, but Chapter 14 is up... http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=9120758&posted=1#post9120758

This chapter will feature two prominent one-on-one fights! I hope that you enjoy them both!  

[rowan_a._seven]

Hm...I'm not sure what exactly it is about this chapter, but I feel like it's one of your best thus far.  It might just be my ego talking since I can see where you've taken Spanner's and my feedback to heart, but things really seemed to come together well here.  Galus's explanation does a decent job of dispelling the confusion over his orders in the previous update, and Mikuru's role had me genuinely cheering for her.  It's surprisingly nice to see her stand up and act assertive for a change.  The battle between her and Yuki was entertaining too, and it's interesting to watch Yuki make sense of the situation and begin to attempt to reason her way to freedom.  And Dr. Tofu?  Heh, I didn't expect Jinnai to be a Ranma 1/2 fan.

Regardless, Jinnai's delusions about Makoto were an intelligent way to further Haruhi's misconceptions of El-Hazard and set-up the chapter's second battle.  And what this fight lacked in destructive power it made up for in hilarity.  For some reason Makoto and Haruhi's references to being top gym students made me laugh, and the images of Haruhi jump kicking Makoto and the two of them duking it out struck me as funny in a ridiculous (but good!) way.  It's also amusing to see some of Jinnai's mannerisms rub off on Haruhi.

Additionally, I'm touched that you've listened to some of my advice about fight scenes and I think it's helping, but I'd also recommend using hyphens instead of commas to interrupt action with dialogue.  Hyphens tend to offer a more abrupt and forceful break than commas which are more often associated with pauses.

So, instead of:
"That..." began Yuki Nagato, as she began to engage in rapid fire blasts of white pulsating energy at Mikuru, "is where you are," resulting in Mikuru screaming in dissonance while thrown about violently by the blasts, failing to dodge them outright, "wrong, Mikuru."

Perhaps this?
"That..." began Yuki Nagato, as she began to engage in rapid fire blasts of white pulsating energy at Mikuru- "...is where you are..." -resulting in Mikuru screaming in dissonance while thrown about violently by the blasts, failing to dodge them outright. "...wrong, Mikuru."

Other than that, I don't have much more to say about this update.  It was a pleasant read, and you also continue to surprise me with the direction the story takes.  I assumed that the Phantom Tribe's master plan would take center-stage by now but it looks like you still have a couple chapters left before the finale.  Good luck with your writing.

[Triple_R]

Chapter 15 is up!: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=9137742&posted=1#post9137742

Special note - for anyone who hasn't read Chapter 14, you'll need to get it on the page before the one that comes up in the link above.

Now, unto my reply to rowan, and questions for both rowan and Spanner and anybody else who wants to offer advice on it!

Hm...I'm not sure what exactly it is about this chapter, but I feel like it's one of your best thus far.  It might just be my ego talking since I can see where you've taken Spanner's and my feedback to heart, but things really seemed to come together well here.  Galus's explanation does a decent job of dispelling the confusion over his orders in the previous update, and Mikuru's role had me genuinely cheering for her.  It's surprisingly nice to see her stand up and act assertive for a change.  The battle between her and Yuki was entertaining too, and it's interesting to watch Yuki make sense of the situation and begin to attempt to reason her way to freedom.  And Dr. Tofu?  Heh, I didn't expect Jinnai to be a Ranma 1/2 fan.

Well, it was either Dr. Tofu, or Professor Tomoe, and I felt the latter was too obvious a rip-off. Kudos on getting the obscure Ranma 1/2 reference!  

Special Note: I almost had Tatewaki Kuno, the Blue Thunder of the Bugrom Empire (i.e. a crazily skilled bugrom that Jinnai would have trained in wooden blade use to counter the magnetic Kyon)

Special Note 2: I'm basically writing this fanfic for five people - you, Spanner, two big Jinnai fans on other boards, and myself. At least one of the two big Jinnai fans is totally on-board with Jinnai/Haruhi, so that's cool - odd since he's not a big Haruhi fan, either.

Satisfying the Jinnai fans probably isn't going to be a problem - so I can focus more on making this fanfic enjoyable for you and Spanner.

Regardless, Jinnai's delusions about Makoto were an intelligent way to further Haruhi's misconceptions of El-Hazard and set-up the chapter's second battle.  And what this fight lacked in destructive power it made up for in hilarity.  For some reason Makoto and Haruhi's references to being top gym students made me laugh, and the images of Haruhi jump kicking Makoto and the two of them duking it out struck me as funny in a ridiculous (but good!) way.  It's also amusing to see some of Jinnai's mannerisms rub off on Haruhi.

I'm very glad that you approved of all of that! I wanted to play Makoto vs. Haruhi in a way that hardcore fans of either could take the fight seriously if they wanted to... but that the fight would have comedic elements as well for people who couldn't take it quite as seriously as Mikuru vs. Yuki.

Additionally, I'm touched that you've listened to some of my advice about fight scenes and I think it's helping, but I'd also recommend using hyphens instead of commas to interrupt action with dialogue.  Hyphens tend to offer a more abrupt and forceful break than commas which are more often associated with pauses.

So, instead of:
"That..." began Yuki Nagato, as she began to engage in rapid fire blasts of white pulsating energy at Mikuru, "is where you are," resulting in Mikuru screaming in dissonance while thrown about violently by the blasts, failing to dodge them outright, "wrong, Mikuru."

Perhaps this?
"That..." began Yuki Nagato, as she began to engage in rapid fire blasts of white pulsating energy at Mikuru- "...is where you are..." -resulting in Mikuru screaming in dissonance while thrown about violently by the blasts, failing to dodge them outright. "...wrong, Mikuru."

Other than that, I don't have much more to say about this update.  It was a pleasant read, and you also continue to surprise me with the direction the story takes.  I assumed that the Phantom Tribe's master plan would take center-stage by now but it looks like you still have a couple chapters left before the finale.  Good luck with your writing.

Thanks for all the great advice. Onomatopoeia is something that had totally slipped my mind, and as you suggested, it works well for fights with dialogue involved. In fact, it adds a comic book-esque feel to the fights which I like.

Now, a few things I want to cover, and ask, at this juncture of the fanfic...

The latest update (Chapter 15) is going to be pretty talk-heavy and filled with exposition. That was unfortunately unavoidable. Furthermore, I found that to make room for the key conversations in it, a lot of characters are going with out lines unfortunately.

The plot will really begin to clump together over the next few chapters (4 to 6 are now left, I'd say), and that may require less lines for some characters. With that in mind, I have the following questions for you and Spanner...

1) Is there any particular character that you feel I haven't given enough lines to given their importance within the El Hazard anime or within the Haruhi Suzumiya anime?


2) Would you prefer decompressed story-telling or compressed story-telling the rest of the way? The following scenes are on the bubble, so to speak, depending on your answer...

- A scene in which almost all of the protagonists talk amongst themselves about the Haruhi/Jinnai relationship/situation and how it impacts on the broader Alliance/Bugrom situation.

- A poignant Jinnai/Groucho scene that will take place AFTER the big confrontation between Haruhi and Jinnai.

- A Fatora/Haruhi comedy scene

- The length and size and style of the Haruhi/Rune Venus/Fatora peace negotiation

Which of the above would you like for me to keep, and which are you willing to shed in order to get a quicker resolution (unless you're fine with six more chapters of course)?

Anyway, I just want to add a special note to Spanner - thanks a lot for liking my take on Queen Diva! I did indeed spend a lot of time on her in this fanfic. I felt that she was a bit underdeveloped in the Magnificent World canon.

Anyway, Chapter 16 will be the big one - it's the big confrontation between fully aware Haruhi Suzumiya and antagonist Katsuhiko Jinnai. Will Jinnai turn Haruhi into a villain, will Haruhi reform Jinnai into a hero, or will the Bugrom Empire descend into civil war?

And what will it mean for the Haruhi/Jinnai shipping?

Well, that's all for now! I look forward to your reply on the chapter and answers to my questions.

[Spanner]

All right, I've taken a look at chapters 14 and 15, and here are my thoughts:

Chapter 14:

All told, I enjoyed Chapter 14 quite a bit!

You resolved the situation with Yuki (basically, how the heck Haruhi was going to escape a determined Demon God) quite well, with the unveiling of Mikuru's new MIKURU BEEEEAM! It does stand to reason that the awesome power of the Mikuru Beam could be enough to damage a Demon God - and that Galus wouldn't want to risk the loss of such a powerful asset so soon.

I definitely enjoy Yuki's dialogue, and also her self-analysis. You've done a great job of keeping her in-character. It's good to see her still working hard to find loopholes around her Demon-God-related slavery. I was also glad to see how quick Galus was in picking up on her attempts to stall his orders.

As for Mikuru's power, I'll admit that it was pretty predictable that that would be Mikuru's power, but honestly, it's just too amusing for me to complain about it.

I do have one complaint, but it's more a gripe against the comic industry (or, heck, pop fiction in general) than against your story. Jinnai, predictably, is back from the dead. While this didn't surprise me, he's the third character in this story to miraculously recover from lethal injury (the first being Galus, and the second Itsuki). It's really quite annoying how the popular trend is for characters to be resurrected at the whims of the author. Frankly, it makes death a cheap trick. It's hard to place any emotional weight on a death when you know the author is going to bring a character back in the next chapter - and even if the author throws in a twist and the character is REALLY dead, the emotional hit doesn't show up until the death confirmation. The actual death itself still isn't very moving.

Anyway, my position is this: If you aren't going to kill off a character FOR REALZ, don't bother doing it at all unless there's a really good plot-related reason. If it's just to try to shock the audience, don't bother. Now, that obviously wasn't the case here - something nasty had to happen to Jinnai to set Haruhi off. But the Itsuki thing earlier just seemed kinda pointless.

Moving on, I was amused by the Ranma 1/2 cameo in the Bugrom doctor, Tofu. Given that Jinnai names his Bugrom, it seems likely he's a Ranma fan as well.

I enjoyed Haruhi's first taste of a full-blown Mizuhara rant (kinda makes me wonder if, as a Ranma 1/2 fan, Jinnai relates to Ryoga?), and very much enjoyed the fight she got into with Makoto as a result. Yes, it was definitely a battle in Haruhi's favor. To be honest, I wouldn't have put big money on Makoto even if he wasn't holding back. Haruhi's the type to fight DIRTY.

Speaking of that fight, I found it to be quite amusing, as well. It's not often that you see a low-powered, ordinary hand-to-hand battle in El-Hazard. They're usally all about the energy blasts, and super martial arts, and what have you. Two high-schoolers slugging it out turned out to be pretty awesome in its uniqueness!

Chapter 15:

To be honest, the start of chapter 15 caught me a bit by surprise. I expected you to carry the masquerade a bit further, but you actually sat Haruhi down and had her listen to the good guys for a while. Listen, and actually learn the truth (or, rather, an expanded view on the truth).

I was a bit bemused at the Roshtarian guard who dismissed Haruhi as a threat due to the fact that she's just a young girl - in particular considering that a young boy not much older has the well-deserved title of war criminal. Oh well - no reason there can't be double standards in Roshtaria just as there are on our world!

Still, they did have Makoto vouching for her, so it's not too odd that they left her in his hands. I was amused at Makoto's willingness to forgive and forget the beating he took at Haruhi's hands. That's definitely in-character for him.

I enjoyed Haruhi's and Nanami's heart-to-heart about Jinnai - especially Nanami's barely restrained incredulity that anyone could fall for that crazy wierdo freak. This is probably the one place that I'd have forgiven you for Nanami to lose her upbeat attitude and just go ballistic - but it works even better this way, I think, with Nanami trying to be sympethetic. I especially enjoyed Haruhi's favorable comparison between the siblings, and Nanami's grudging admission that she has a point.

Haruhi's realization that Jinnai was a kindred spirit in wanting to change the world to suit his desires was a cool analogy, too. The desire to save him just as she herself had been "saved" by Kyon was a nice touch as well.

Two chapters of almost uniformly good stuff! My only real gripe was the "Oh my God you killed Kenny - juuuuust kidding!" you pulled with Jinnai, and even that wasn't wholely out-of-place. I look forward to seeing how Jinnai deals with Haruhi now that she wants to prevent his goals of world conquest (or, at least, of world conquest through violent means).

I'm also feeling just a bit sorry for the Shadow Tribe, now that they have been revealed as the masterminds behind Haruhi's woes. The forecast doesn't look good for them at all...

[Spanner]

1) Is there any particular character that you feel I haven't given enough lines to given their importance within the El Hazard anime or within the Haruhi Suzumiya anime?

Not really that I can think of. There are some characters that have been "underrepresented" I guess you could say... but it's like I said before. Just because you have a huge cast doesn't mean you should feel obligated to shoehorn them all in.

Your story has done a pretty good job of spotlighting the characters that are actually central to the plot. Haruhi, Jinnai, Makoto, and Kyon are pretty much the star players in this particular drama, so it isn't a crime that Mikuru, Itsuki, the priestesses, and so on don't barge into every conversation.

2) Would you prefer decompressed story-telling or compressed story-telling the rest of the way? The following scenes are on the bubble, so to speak, depending on your answer...

I'm not really sure what you mean by "decompressed" vs "compressed", but I will say that "compressed" has the ominous sound of trying to fit too much into too little. Write the story in the way that feels best; don't feel like you have to please the audience by rushing to the "good stuff". In fact, I'm a HUGE fan of writing what you want and telling the audience to go screw themselves if they don't like it. While the author should always feel free to grow and develop based on audience criticizm, they should never feel obligated to slavishly bend to the audience's every whim.

Still, here's my opinions on your proposed scenes:

- A scene in which almost all of the protagonists talk amongst themselves about the Haruhi/Jinnai relationship/situation and how it impacts on the broader Alliance/Bugrom situation.

Sounds a bit boring, but could be a very important foundation for the alliance's eventual "forgiveness" of Jinnai, assuming that you DO intend to have Haruhi reform him. Noting how Jinnai's health and freedom could be important factors in establishing a lasting peace between Roshtaria and the Bugrom might be an important thing to establish early on.

- A poignant Jinnai/Groucho scene that will take place AFTER the big confrontation between Haruhi and Jinnai.

It's always great to see Jinnai getting sentimental. It's hard to tell if this is, strictly speaking, "necessary" or not; that all depends on what you plan on developing from it.

- A Fatora/Haruhi comedy scene

Honestly, this sounds like a riot. I'm honestly not sure how Haruhi would react. A lot of Haruhi fandom believes that Haruhi's probably bisexual, and it might be very amusing to see her turn the "predator" Fatora into the prey. I wanna see Haruhi nibbling on Fatora's ear and forcing her into cosplay outfits.

- The length and size and style of the Haruhi/Rune Venus/Fatora peace negotiation

Not too enthused about this one. I don't think a tremendous amount of screen time should be devoted to it. It does have some potential for helping to showcase just how hurt the Alliance has been by the Bugrom and how deep their grudges go.

Which of the above would you like for me to keep, and which are you willing to shed in order to get a quicker resolution (unless you're fine with six more chapters of course)?

Again, tell the story how it needs to be told, not the way your audience wants it to be told. Six more chapters? Sure, if that's what it takes!

[Triple_R]

And the Haruhi/Jinnai verbal showdown of Chapter 16 is complete!:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=9149989&posted=1#post9149989


Hate to say it, but that showdown took so long to do justice to (I felt), that there's not much else besides it.  

A few notes to Spanner - It's funny, but I strongly agree with you on how overly common and cheap deaths/resurrections have become in comic books and pop fiction in general.

I will promise you this - if any other character in my story dies, he or she will stay dead!  

I had my reasons for how I chose to handle Galus and Itsuki, but all the same... I get your points loud and clear. I will say that having Haruhi as a character is a bit of a temptation for a writer - you feel empowered by having an almost literal deus ex machina character to do whatever you want.

I'll try to be more careful there.

All the same, I'm really pleased and pleasantly surprised that you liked Chapters 14 and 15 so much! I'm particularly glad that Haruhi's dialogue is coming across Ok. Showing her softer side is tricky, and it's obviously necessary for a story involving her in a romance, so I hope that I'm capturing her character fairly well.

As you wrote, her, Jinnai, Makoto, and Kyon are the four key characters of this story (probably with Yuki and Galus coming close behind). Considering that's the two main protagonists of one anime, and the main protagonist and main antagonist of the other anime, that sounds about right to me anyway.

Anyway... I look forward to your take on Chapter 16!

[Spanner]

All right, Chapter 16!

First off, let me say that I LOVED Jinnai's attempt to seduce Haruhi to the ways of Pure Evil Genius! His arguments were very compelling, and I loved seeing Haruhi's face mashed into the realization that her own methods tend to creep awfully far over the good/evil line from time to time.

(Just a nit I'd like to pick: you mentioned that the Computer Club president was tricked into touching Haruhi's breasts... actually, Haruhi tricked him into appearing to molest Mikuru, not Haruhi herself.)

Haruhi's counterargument was equally well presented, and Jinnai's insertion of the whole Makoto aspect was well-placed. If there was any weakness at all to be found, it was that Jinnai seemed to accept the idea of turning to a life of scientific exploration a bit too easily. It wasn't totally clear how such a thing would enable him to one-up Makoto, which, as he had just mentioned, seemed to be at the heart of his whole motivation.

(After I thought about it for a bit, I suddenly realized how this COULD enable him to trump Makoto once and for all, and a rather delicious victory at that. If you want me to share my idea, I'll send you a PM; there's certainly a strong chance it's already something you have in mind.)

And then... Haruhi pushes things just too far, and Jinnai plunges back into the Dark Side! But Haruhi won't stand for it! It's a clash of wills like none other!

Then, at the end, some more Mwahahah villiany courtesy of Galus, with sad snow girl Yuki putting up with his cruelty. Not as awesome as the Haruhi/Jinnai scene, but still good.

This is a good example of a "talky" chapter that still keeps the audience riveted. There wasn't even a scrap of action to be had the whole chapter, but it was still a very good read.

[Triple_R]

All right, Chapter 16!

First off, let me say that I LOVED Jinnai's attempt to seduce Haruhi to the ways of Pure Evil Genius! His arguments were very compelling, and I loved seeing Haruhi's face mashed into the realization that her own methods tend to creep awfully far over the good/evil line from time to time.

Thanks a lot!

(Just a nit I'd like to pick: you mentioned that the Computer Club president was tricked into touching Haruhi's breasts... actually, Haruhi tricked him into appearing to molest Mikuru, not Haruhi herself.)

Thanks for the correction - I made a slight edit to Jinnai's speech because of it.

Haruhi's counterargument was equally well presented, and Jinnai's insertion of the whole Makoto aspect was well-placed. If there was any weakness at all to be found, it was that Jinnai seemed to accept the idea of turning to a life of scientific exploration a bit too easily. It wasn't totally clear how such a thing would enable him to one-up Makoto, which, as he had just mentioned, seemed to be at the heart of his whole motivation.  

Yeah, I'd agree that was the weakest aspect of the Haruhi/Jinnai confrontation. I wanted Haruhi's argument to be something that greatly reflected her own exploratory interests, and that Jinnai would at least find palatable; but not necessarily awe-inspiring.

I wasn't sure how much I should invest Haruhi into helping Jinnai one-up Makoto for the sheer sake of one-upping Makoto.

(After I thought about it for a bit, I suddenly realized how this COULD enable him to trump Makoto once and for all, and a rather delicious victory at that. If you want me to share my idea, I'll send you a PM; there's certainly a strong chance it's already something you have in mind.)

Yes, I'd love to hear your idea. I have a bit of an idea of what it could be, but just to make sure...

And then... Haruhi pushes things just too far, and Jinnai plunges back into the Dark Side!

Generally speaking, I don't like easy reformations. I tend to find them unrealistic... at least when dealing with psyches as messed up as Jinnai's, or your typical anime/comic book villain for that matter.

I prefer reformations to be something that is gradually arrived at with some significant effort.

But Haruhi won't stand for it! It's a clash of wills like none other!

Then, at the end, some more Mwahahah villiany courtesy of Galus, with sad snow girl Yuki putting up with his cruelty. Not as awesome as the Haruhi/Jinnai scene, but still good.

This is a good example of a "talky" chapter that still keeps the audience riveted. There wasn't even a scrap of action to be had the whole chapter, but it was still a very good read.

Thanks!

The likely layout here on out...

Next Chapter - Probably a touch of comedy and setting up the big multi-part finale, actually

Rest of the chapters - Action, action, and more action!


By the way, I forgot to mention it before, but I agree with your Jinnai and Ryoga comparison. Actually, when I saw Ryoga getting mad with Ranma for butting in front of him in school recess lines, I immediately thought of Jinnai and Makoto.  

[rowan_a._seven]

2) Would you prefer decompressed story-telling or compressed story-telling the rest of the way? The following scenes are on the bubble, so to speak, depending on your answer...

- A scene in which almost all of the protagonists talk amongst themselves about the Haruhi/Jinnai relationship/situation and how it impacts on the broader Alliance/Bugrom situation.

- A poignant Jinnai/Groucho scene that will take place AFTER the big confrontation between Haruhi and Jinnai.

- A Fatora/Haruhi comedy scene

- The length and size and style of the Haruhi/Rune Venus/Fatora peace negotiation

Which of the above would you like for me to keep, and which are you willing to shed in order to get a quicker resolution (unless you're fine with six more chapters of course)?

I essentially agree with Spanner on this matter.  All of these scenes could be worth including depending on how they fit into the larger story and, conversely, could be extraneous subject to their handling.  Include as many or as few as you think the story calls for and you feel like writing.

As for my thoughts on the prospective scenes themselves, you've already touched upon some of the reactions to Haruhi and Jinnai's relationship, at least among the characters it affects the most (i.e. Kyon, Nanami, and Makoto), so an entire scene dedicated to covering what the rest of the massive cast thinks about it could be a bit superfluous.  Even if there's some new dynamic or development the scene would introduce, using Kyon's narrative to recap a condensed version could be more effective.  On the other hand, it's an opportunity to showcase some of the less prominent characters in this story and could be a strong segue-way into the rest of a chapter.

Depending on how you want to bring Jinnai back into the story, a poignant scene between him and Groucho could be useful.  Groucho probably knows Jinnai better than anyone and might be able to frame current circumstances in a way that'll sway him to Haruhi's point of view or, at the very least, act as the sounding board Jinnai needs to realize that Haruhi's likely walking into another trap.  After all, if he was hoping to strike a serious blow against the Alliance a peace summit would be too good an opportunity to pass up (a la Wanderers), and assuming he knows now that the Phantom Tribe was behind the earlier assassination attempt on Haruhi...well, Jinnai's devious and intelligent enough to figure out what'll probably happen.

The Fatora/Haruhi comedy scene...it sounds promising, but it might fit in better after the climax.  It sounds like you're already going to have a lot going on with the negotiations, and while Fatora might be irresponsible enough to gallivant around when serious diplomacy is called for this is one of those occasions I can see Rune being firm to ensure that a peace treaty isn't sidetracked.

As for the negotiation itself, showcasing it directly has plusses and minuses.  Doing it justice could require massive amounts of dialogue and potentially a host of original characters to serve as nobles/diplomats, but on the other hand the subject matter isn't necessarily uninteresting and it might be compelling to see Haruhi defend the Bugrom Empire and Jinnai (and attempt to explain that the second invasion of Gannon was a "misunderstanding" ).  Alternatively, this might be a good spot to showcase the supporting cast and their opinions on recent developments while the negotiations go on in the background.

Anyway, onto the feedback for the chapters.  Spanner already covered most of the main points for Chapter 15, so I'll simply repeat that the analogy you made here between Haruhi and Jinnai's desires to reshape the world was very striking.  Those two really do have more in common than one might think at first glance.  Kyon's rationality and evenhandedness even when he had practically every reason to be upset with Haruhi also struck me as a nice and believable reaction on his part, and his willingness to put the important details aside and simply take a few moments to celebrate being reunited with friends was touching.  And, as Spanner said, Makoto's quick-to-forgive-and-trust approach to Haruhi seemed very in-character for him.  I enjoyed reading Nanami's conversation with the new Bugrom Queen too.  Your depiction of her has improved, in my opinion.  My only nitpick here is the use of the name Winston de Gaulle for a Bugrom human collaborator.  I understand that it's ironic, but considering the roles the real Winston Churchill and Charles de Gaulle played in history it also seems almost...disrespectful to me.

Regardless, Chapter 16 was another good update.  Jinnai and Haruhi's conversation revealed several salient insights into the minds and personas of both characters, the two that perhaps stood out the most to me being just how appallingly similar some of Haruhi's past actions are to Jinnai's mindset and Jinnai's compulsive need to one-up Makoto, even if it's by becoming the villain to his hero.  I'm not entirely certain if OVA Jinnai would outright call himself evil or the villain, though.  While Wanderers Jinnai (and Diva too, for that matter) enjoy playing the parts of evil overlord and grand villainy, OVA Jinnai struck me more as...well, arrogant and delusional enough that he truly believes he is the destined Messenger of God and fated to conquer El-Hazard rather than viewing himself as a criminal evildoer.  Then again, a Wanderers-type interpretation of his OVA-self is also quite feasible, and in some ways you've combined the best of the two worlds in this story.  The dialogue here was certainly quite compelling for the most part, and it's a positive testament that the dearth of action didn't bore me at all.

I think you also made a good choice in closing the chapter with another Phantom Tribe scene.  After the defeat of their seeming "master plan" earlier I was wondering how they'd remain the central antagonists, and it's reassuringly ominous that they appear to have a final gambit prepared (kind of like how they sabotaged the Eye of God in OVA1 so even if their own attempt to use it didn't work the world would still be in peril).  Galus and Nahato also both came across as less bland to me, though that might be a result of their schemes starting to reach fruition.  Either way, you have me both looking forward to seeing what they have planned and what's next for the protagonists.  Thanks for sharing.        

[Triple_R]

Sorry about the wait, but the length of Chapter 17 might make up for it...    

Here it is!: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=269068&page=6


Special Notes: I've created a heck of a lot of El Hazard nations out of thin air, since the only ones I know of are Roshtaria, Gannan, and Durasland (and three nations just doesn't seem like enough to me). If, however, there are actual canon El Hazard nations that I'm forgetting, I'll gladly put them in place in some of the fanfic nation names I'll come up with. So, I'm all ears there!

Also, I decided to throw just about everything into Chapter 17 after all. I just felt that the El Hazard protagonist cast hadn't been showcased properly in a long time, and that it was time to change that. I hope that I succeeded there. Also, I was actually experimenting with a Jinnai/Groucho scene - not even sure if I was going to include it - and a part of it was too good to leave out, I felt.


Rowan - I'm going to type up a reply to you tomorrow. In the meantime, though, how does Pierre Chamberlain sound as a replacement name for Winston de Gaulle?

Pierre is there just because I like that name, by the way.

[Spanner]

Chapter 17...

This one started off a little bit weak. While Nanami's amazement of the progress Haruhi has made with her brother was interesting in chapter 15, seeing it again here seemed like it might be rehashing it a bit too much.

I was also a bit befuddled at the inclusion of Ranma Saotome as the identity of Nanami's childhood tormentor. Her description of the bully doesn't seem to match the personality of the original Ranma very closely. While I don't place Ranma on the glorious pedestal some fanfiction authors do, there's definitely certain depths he won't step to. He's more inclined to beat up bullies than be a bully himself, and the only girl he ever (deliberately) picks on is Akane - and his reasons for picking on her are pretty complicated.

So, the way that it comes across is that you created a character, and then just slapped on a popular character's name for the heck of it. That's not very good practice; if you're going to include an obvious cameo name, it ought to at least slightly match the character.

To be honest, I had the same beef with Nanoha when she was first introduced as a heartless assassin; it's like you were just assigning a popular name for no good reason. Eventually Nanoha developed a bit and became a character that resembled her cameo source to a degree, so it wasn't so bad.

If you're going to cameo a character's name, you really ought to include a bit of of the character's CHARACTER as well. Otherwise, as in my case, the reader will become confused.

In this particular case, if you were going to create a bully character, and you really wanted to plug Ranma 1/2, you might have wanted to consider using a Ranma character that actually IS a bully - Pantyhose Tarou, for instance (though he's a little bit of an obscure character).

Anyway, that's five paragraphs devoted to one little throwaway chunk of the story, so I'll move on.

I was slightly disappointed with the Jinnai/Groucho scene. I assume this is the heart-to-heart you mentioned as a potential scene? It seemed more like Groucho talking at Jinnai and him railing at the world and wrestling with his own inner turmoil. To be honest, I'm not sure exactly what I was expecting from this scene - and it may be far more appropriate that Jinnai be able to work things through on his own than have a heart-to-heart anyway. Meh, I don't know what I'm saying; it's just a bit off, somehow. (Gawd, that's the most useless kind of criticism!)

I was a bit lukewarm when you originally presented the idea of doing the peace summit on-screen, but this section actually turned out to be pretty entertaining. You did a pretty good job of creating interesting leaders to share their viewpoints. (I also chuckled a bit at the inclusion of "Megraton of Cyberia" as an aggressive and vengeful ruler; it was a cute cameo, and much more appropriate than the Ranma Saotome one.)

(Oh, as a bit of a nitpick, the onset of the meeting seemed to indicate that Rune and Fatora were the only females present. In the summit that occurred during the first episode of the OAV, though, there was at least one other female leader that I can recall; there may have been more, as well.)

Then, the terrorist incursion. I rolled my eyes a bit when one of the terrorist's whipped out a "wooden knife stick" to counter Kyon's magnetic powers. It just sounds so silly. I think a bit of research here might have been in order to pick an ACTUAL non-metal weapon. Or even just not to have mentioned the special traits of the weapon at all. Something like this, perhaps:

"Duke!" shouted the leader of the Black Knights of Zala to one of his men, "Take out the alien magnet man! Use your knife!"

A knife? Hah, how is that any better than a bullet? One of the Black Knights that had previously been trying to kill Haruhi leapt towards me, holding a blade in his hands. When I tried to stop him, I suddenly realized his plan - the knife was made of glass! And he was about to strike me down with it! It took all of my concentration to simply hold back the guns and gunfire of the Black Knights... I was in no position to defend myself in close quarters combat on top of that. Thankfully, I didn't need to...

I also took a page from Niel Stephenson's "Snow Crash" and made the knife from glass rather than wood; it's hard to imagine a slashing weapon made from wood being all that terribly effective. Of course, a glass knife would be harder to set on fire. Perhaps a wooden spear would be a better choice of weapon, or even a club. A "wooden knife stick" is honestly kind of hard to even picture. I kept imagining that the guy pulled out an ordinary twig that had had the end shaved to a point for roasting marshmallows.

Then, Yuki appears and Haruhi transforms into Ifurita to fight her! And... gets utterly schooled before she can even make a move. Yuki seems to be pretty scarily powerful. If Galus know's Yuki is capable of this kind of thing, why doesn't he just have her slaughter all the good guys except for Haruhi? I honestly can't see any way that his plans can be anything but helped by the elimination of our heroes, and the summit leaders for good measure. This kind of thing is a bit troublesome in comic books, as well; the authors give the villians AMAZING powers that they could use to do pretty much whatever they want - and then send them off to rob a bank.

Hopefully you have some reason in mind as to why Galus is holding back. And hopefully that reason goes beyond merely wanting to have the heroes broken at his feet so he can gloat at them.

Anyway, all in all I'm afraid I have to say this chapter was a bit weaker than many of the ones you've done, especially when compared to the entertaining previous chapter. Still, the plot rolls on. I look forward to seeing what you have in mind now that Galus is luring our heroes (and possibly Jinnai, as well?) into his trap!

[Triple_R]

Edit: To make up for the bad chapter, Spanner, I'm going to share with you a (hopefully) comedic vid that I made a long time ago actually... but which actually kind of fits well with the mood of most of this fanfic. Funny how the idea for this fanfic came a long time after I decided to make this vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8thmGjj6QI&feature=channel_page

Note: An anime called Shakugan no Shana is also featured in the vid - for the purposes of this thread the first 18 seconds are the most important.


I hate to say it, Spanner, but I'm kind of disappointed at your disappointment.

Not a word on the Fatora/Alielle/Haruhi bit? The tip of the hat to your Kyon/Fatora suggestions to me? Or Sensei Fujisawa's heroics for Haruhi?

All of that was written with you in mind - especially the Fatora/Alielle/Haruhi scene.

And... wow... you and Rowan both care a lot about original character names. With Nanoha Inverse I can kind of understand it - she's an important character in the story - but the Ranma in my story is just a flashback character with out any lines at all.

Furthermore, Ranma has fought more girls than Akane. He's also fought Shampoo, Kodachi Kuno, Ukyo, Mariko, etc...

I can personally conceive of a younger Ranma - a Ranma raised brutally by Genma - being a bit of a bully. Certainly, he wasn't exactly nice to Ryoga, was he?

You and Rowan seemed to be pretty big Ranma fans, and hence I thought you'd like the little cameo name. Also, it's obviously not the real Ranma, or Makoto would not have beat him. The Ranma name was just for a little laugh - I never expected you to take it so seriously. I guess I was wrong there.


As for the knife stick - It's this:

http://www.brethart.com/files/images/bigbossman.thumbnail.jpg


Some people in law enforcement use a tough blunt instrument called a knife stick (like the one this pro wrestler based on law enforcement officers uses) in trying to subdue criminals. A wooden knife stick is a blunt weapon, not a cutting one - a wooden blunt weapon can still be effective, just like a baseball bat used as a weapon can be.  


As for Yuki... Spanner, I already showed her getting defeated (or at least forced to retreat) by Sensei Fujisawa and Mikuru Asahina; I thought it was about time that Yuki actually won a fight outright for a change. What would make you think that Yuki could defeat all of the El Hazard protagonists given her earlier defeats at the hands of Fujisawa and Mikuru? Beyond that, there's no good reason whatsoever for Galus to think that Yuki could single-handedly defeat all of the El Hazard protagonists given Yuki's problems with Fujisawa and Mikuru. Hence Galus' entire theory is that there's too many powerful variables on the protagonist side, so instead of trying to always fight them on their home turf where his level of control is limited, he's trying to drag them to HIS home turf where his level of control is considerably greater. It makes perfectly good sense to me.

In fact, the Black Knights of Zala were set up to distract as many of the El Hazard protagonists as possible so Yuki could zoom in on Haruhi, and take her captive, with out having to hopelessly try to fight all of the El Hazard protagonists.

Yes, Yuki can time freeze and data drain, but who knows how much those moves drains her - and if it leaves her with much power left to fight on with?

Also, Yuki defeated Haruhi in part because Haruhi hesitated. An El Hazard protagonist may not have hesitated.

Canon Yuki, IIRC, has commented on how using time freeze drains her. It's also clear that she had to expand a lot of effort to data drain Ryoko Asakura.


As for re-hashed scenes - I consider it important character and plot development. I'm also developing a friendship between Haruhi and Nanami - you don't do that in one short scene in one chapter. All of this is also to try to make up for my earlier problems with Nanami that you yourself pointed out.

Also, I simply felt that the beginning with Haruhi and Nanami was the most believable way for the story to progress.

And as for the Jinnai scene - maybe I should have left that out. The key with that scene, for me, was to hammer home the fact that Haruhi now means as much to Jinnai as Makoto does - only in a diametrically opposing way, of course. I hoped that contrasting positive memories that Jinnai has of Haruhi with the well-established negative memories that Jinnai has of Makoto would do a good job of that. I had hoped that it would prove to be striking, and furthermore, I felt that it would serve to put the fanfic into broader perspective.  

Edit: This is NOT the Jinnai/Groucho heart-to-heart that I was talking about. THAT discussion is coming up in the next chapter. This scene was mostly to show Jinnai's inner thinking.


All of this said, though - I thank you for continuing to read and review my fanfic. I actually felt that Chapter 17 was my best chapter - I felt that it had action, comedy, drama, touching character interactions on the protagonist side, lines for almost every named canon character featured in the fanfic, good in-fanfic character development for several characters. I'm genuinely taken aback by your almost uniformly negative review of the chapter.

Oh well - you liked Chapter 15 way more than I thought you would (I myself thought you'd call it a filler chapter) and now you disliked Chapter 17 (by far the most eventful chapters of all of them) way more than I thought you would.

Chapter 17...

This one started off a little bit weak. While Nanami's amazement of the progress Haruhi has made with her brother was interesting in chapter 15, seeing it again here seemed like it might be rehashing it a bit too much.

I was also a bit befuddled at the inclusion of Ranma Saotome as the identity of Nanami's childhood tormentor. Her description of the bully doesn't seem to match the personality of the original Ranma very closely. While I don't place Ranma on the glorious pedestal some fanfiction authors do, there's definitely certain depths he won't step to. He's more inclined to beat up bullies than be a bully himself, and the only girl he ever (deliberately) picks on is Akane - and his reasons for picking on her are pretty complicated.

So, the way that it comes across is that you created a character, and then just slapped on a popular character's name for the heck of it. That's not very good practice; if you're going to include an obvious cameo name, it ought to at least slightly match the character.

To be honest, I had the same beef with Nanoha when she was first introduced as a heartless assassin; it's like you were just assigning a popular name for no good reason. Eventually Nanoha developed a bit and became a character that resembled her cameo source to a degree, so it wasn't so bad.

If you're going to cameo a character's name, you really ought to include a bit of of the character's CHARACTER as well. Otherwise, as in my case, the reader will become confused.

In this particular case, if you were going to create a bully character, and you really wanted to plug Ranma 1/2, you might have wanted to consider using a Ranma character that actually IS a bully - Pantyhose Tarou, for instance (though he's a little bit of an obscure character).

Anyway, that's five paragraphs devoted to one little throwaway chunk of the story, so I'll move on.

I was slightly disappointed with the Jinnai/Groucho scene. I assume this is the heart-to-heart you mentioned as a potential scene? It seemed more like Groucho talking at Jinnai and him railing at the world and wrestling with his own inner turmoil. To be honest, I'm not sure exactly what I was expecting from this scene - and it may be far more appropriate that Jinnai be able to work things through on his own than have a heart-to-heart anyway. Meh, I don't know what I'm saying; it's just a bit off, somehow. (Gawd, that's the most useless kind of criticism!)

I was a bit lukewarm when you originally presented the idea of doing the peace summit on-screen, but this section actually turned out to be pretty entertaining. You did a pretty good job of creating interesting leaders to share their viewpoints. (I also chuckled a bit at the inclusion of "Megraton of Cyberia" as an aggressive and vengeful ruler; it was a cute cameo, and much more appropriate than the Ranma Saotome one.)

(Oh, as a bit of a nitpick, the onset of the meeting seemed to indicate that Rune and Fatora were the only females present. In the summit that occurred during the first episode of the OAV, though, there was at least one other female leader that I can recall; there may have been more, as well.)

Then, the terrorist incursion. I rolled my eyes a bit when one of the terrorist's whipped out a "wooden knife stick" to counter Kyon's magnetic powers. It just sounds so silly. I think a bit of research here might have been in order to pick an ACTUAL non-metal weapon. Or even just not to have mentioned the special traits of the weapon at all. Something like this, perhaps:


I also took a page from Niel Stephenson's "Snow Crash" and made the knife from glass rather than wood; it's hard to imagine a slashing weapon made from wood being all that terribly effective. Of course, a glass knife would be harder to set on fire. Perhaps a wooden spear would be a better choice of weapon, or even a club. A "wooden knife stick" is honestly kind of hard to even picture. I kept imagining that the guy pulled out an ordinary twig that had had the end shaved to a point for roasting marshmallows.

Then, Yuki appears and Haruhi transforms into Ifurita to fight her! And... gets utterly schooled before she can even make a move. Yuki seems to be pretty scarily powerful. If Galus know's Yuki is capable of this kind of thing, why doesn't he just have her slaughter all the good guys except for Haruhi? I honestly can't see any way that his plans can be anything but helped by the elimination of our heroes, and the summit leaders for good measure. This kind of thing is a bit troublesome in comic books, as well; the authors give the villians AMAZING powers that they could use to do pretty much whatever they want - and then send them off to rob a bank.

Hopefully you have some reason in mind as to why Galus is holding back. And hopefully that reason goes beyond merely wanting to have the heroes broken at his feet so he can gloat at them.

Anyway, all in all I'm afraid I have to say this chapter was a bit weaker than many of the ones you've done, especially when compared to the entertaining previous chapter. Still, the plot rolls on. I look forward to seeing what you have in mind now that Galus is luring our heroes (and possibly Jinnai, as well?) into his trap!

Edit in reply for Rowan:

Concerning Jinnai in Chapter 16 - my perception of his character (OVA version especially) is a bit complex. I think that he honestly sees himself as the villain, at least in relation to how most view him. I don't think that he views this as incompatible with being the Messenger of God.  I think that he has chosen that role since Makoto has made himself the hero; hence the best way to oppose Makoto is to either beat him at his own game (which Jinnai has given up on, I believe) or to rather be the villain to his hero.

Now, at the same time, he wants Haruhi to be his perfect ally. For his romance to work with her, and for him to continue to be the villain to Makoto's hero, Haruhi has to think of herself as a villain as well; otherwise, Haruhi and Jinnai have a moral alignment gap that simply can't be bridged.

Beyond that... IIRC, OVA Jinnai made the following line to Diva...

"Pure evil... <chuckles>... a good backup!" when referring to Ifurita, based on what Diva told him about her.

So that's my reasoning with Jinnai in Chapter 16.

[Spanner]

I'm sorry if my review of Chapter 17 upset you a bit. I had no idea that it was one that you were so proud of. Unfortunately, while I might have been able to be a little more tactful about it, I gotta call 'em as I see 'em.

Remember, though, that just because it didn't push my buttons in the way that you hoped doesn' t mean that the chapter is wrong or bad - just that I, personally, had trouble with it. Unless you know me extraordinarily well (and we haven't been communicating long enough for that to be possible), you're not going to be able to please me all the time. And that's perfectly okay.

That said, I wanted to respond to a couple of your counter arguments.

First off, the club you pictured is actually known as a "Nightstick", not a "Knife stick". An easy mistake to make if you've never actually read the term, but only heard it on television. Here's a Wiki article on the weapon. There are many different varieties, but if you scroll about halfway down the Wiki page, you'll see a picture of the tonfa-style nightsticks you probably had in mind. Now that I know what weapon you had in mind, the scene seems a lot less silly. Yes, a nightstick would be an effective counter against Kyon.

As for the Ranma thing, perhaps I didn't explain my discomfort carefully enough. It might just be me, but in a story that already embraces the crossover concept, if we see a famous name pop up attached to a character that resembles the original holder of the name, then I smile and acknowledge the character. If the character does NOT resemble the original, then I want to know why - and with no explanation provided, I'm left confused and a bit irritated.

I acknowledge that there are many possible explanations as to why this Ranma Saotome is a bully. The original's actions certainly could SEEM like those of a bully at times - Ranma's "bullying" is pretty much Ryoga's whole motivation for following him, even if Ranma himself had no idea he was being a bully. (He was similarly "mean" to Ukyou, though she somehow made friends with him anyway.) Another explanation could be that this Ranma Saotome is just some poor guy whose sadistic parents named him after a manga character - it wouldn't be surprising if someone like that was picked on to the point where he became a bully in retaliation.

My beef is that none of these explanations are provided. Only by talking with you personally, here on the forums, do I know that you pretty much just pulled the name out of a hat and assigned it to a random throwaway character. A random reader, assuming they have the same sort of mindset as myself, is going to wonder why you chose that name, and whether you were taking a mean-spirited shot at the original by attaching his name to a bully.

I understand your motivations behind adding homage names like this. I just want to make you aware that doing it seemingly at random like this might not have the effect you intended. Nanoha Inverse worked, in part because the split name made it abundantly clear that this Nanoha was different, and in part because you greatly developed her backstory. Megraton worked, because he retained the aggressiveness and paranoia of the original character.

As for Yuki... I understand that she has great power, and that it might have been her turn to win. My concern is that by rendering her still able to use an ability like Time Stop (you say that's an actually canon ability from TMoSH? I'm only passingly familiar with Haruhi canon beyond the first anime season and the first novel) it brings several uncomfortable things into question.

First off, why didn't she use it before? If she'd used Time Stop, she would have been able to cleanly take out Haruhi when she was sent to assassinate her. This, obviously, wouldn't fit too well with Galus's plans, but there was no indication in your story that Galus wanted her to hold back. This ability would also have been extremely useful the first time Haruhi attacked our heroes in Chapter 7 (though there, at least, Yuki's orders were apparently only to "intercept" not to kill).

There's plenty of possible explanations, to be sure. In the case of Haruhi, maybe Galus explicitly ordered her not to use Time Stop. Or, perhaps even more likely, Yuki consciously chose not to show off her more powerful abilities, knowing that Galus (whom she doesn't much like) would force her to use them explicitly if he knew she was capable of such power. Of course, if he didn't know before, then he knows now.

The main thrust I'm getting at is that you've put yourself in the awkward position now of convincing your readers that Yuki can't just stop time and kill anyone in the world whenever she (or, rather, Galus) wants to. And why she never used it before. These are questions your readers WILL have in mind while reading your fanfic, and if they're never properly addressed it could leave many with an unsatisfied feeling. You told ME that using Time Stop might drain Yuki to the point where she's unable to further fight. You did not tell the readers. Even if you did, though, consider that apparently she still has enough in her to Data Drain - so why not use that energy to walk up to a target and snap his or her neck like a twig? Anyway, enough on that - I'm sure you understand my words of caution by now. Don't give a power to a character unless you're prepared not only to tell the audience why she uses it, but also why she DOESN'T use it. (As my bank robber example indicated, many comic book authors are TERRIBLE at this.)

Lastly, I wanted to apologize for not addressing the Haruhi/Fatora scene. I guess I didn't want to let you down even further, since I knew you probably wrote that scene with me in mind. Since you asked directly, though, I was pretty ho-hum about it. I felt that Haruhi was entirely too flustered by Fatora's proposal. Haruhi's a girl who's used to the unconventional - YEARNS for the unconventional, in fact. I'd think that she'd find Fatora's offer to be interesting (even if she didn't want to partake) rather than embarrassing. Even more importantly, Haruhi's an extraordinarily dominant personality, much like Fatora herself is. It was a bit disheartening to see her so meek in her refusal.

Her reactions to Fatora can make sense, of course. It more or less fits with Haruhi's desperate desire to make peace - since Fatora's one of the folks she has to convince, it makes sense that she'd be a bit careful in letting Fatora down easy. She's chosen diplomacy and debate as tools for convincing the alliance because the situation is so serious (old, non-serious Haruhi would have chosen tools like intimidation and blackmail to get her way ).

Even so, the scene did not come off as funny as I'd hoped. I think, perhaps, it was not the right place or time to put this scene. Both Haruhi and Fatora had their usual personalities severely curbed by the situation. Had she not been trying to negotiate peace, Haruhi would have been less meek. Had she not been dealing with a powerful noble with her sister sitting right beside her, Fatora wouldn't have taken "no" so easily for an answer. With both characters held back in this way, the comedy was severely hamstrung, in my opinion.

Anyway, I hope all this serves as constructive conversation, rather than just bringing you further down. The video, by the way, was cute. "Bunny demon" indeed...

[Triple_R]

No problem on me being disheartened a bit by the Chapter 17 review. Your latest reply here helped pick me up a bit.

That said, I wanted to respond to a couple of your counter arguments.

First off, the club you pictured is actually known as a "Nightstick", not a "Knife stick". An easy mistake to make if you've never actually read the term, but only heard it on television. Here's a Wiki article on the weapon. There are many different varieties, but if you scroll about halfway down the Wiki page, you'll see a picture of the tonfa-style nightsticks you probably had in mind. Now that I know what weapon you had in mind, the scene seems a lot less silly. Yes, a nightstick would be an effective counter against Kyon.

Well, that clears that up for both of us then.

Thanks for the info. I'll edit in the proper term later.

As for the Ranma thing, perhaps I didn't explain my discomfort carefully enough. It might just be me, but in a story that already embraces the crossover concept, if we see a famous name pop up attached to a character that resembles the original holder of the name, then I smile and acknowledge the character. If the character does NOT resemble the original, then I want to know why - and with no explanation provided, I'm left confused and a bit irritated.

I acknowledge that there are many possible explanations as to why this Ranma Saotome is a bully. The original's actions certainly could SEEM like those of a bully at times - Ranma's "bullying" is pretty much Ryoga's whole motivation for following him, even if Ranma himself had no idea he was being a bully. (He was similarly "mean" to Ukyou, though she somehow made friends with him anyway.) Another explanation could be that this Ranma Saotome is just some poor guy whose sadistic parents named him after a manga character - it wouldn't be surprising if someone like that was picked on to the point where he became a bully in retaliation.

My beef is that none of these explanations are provided. Only by talking with you personally, here on the forums, do I know that you pretty much just pulled the name out of a hat and assigned it to a random throwaway character. A random reader, assuming they have the same sort of mindset as myself, is going to wonder why you chose that name, and whether you were taking a mean-spirited shot at the original by attaching his name to a bully.

I understand your motivations behind adding homage names like this. I just want to make you aware that doing it seemingly at random like this might not have the effect you intended. Nanoha Inverse worked, in part because the split name made it abundantly clear that this Nanoha was different, and in part because you greatly developed her backstory. Megraton worked, because he retained the aggressiveness and paranoia of the original character.

Ok, I see your points. I concede this point to you entirely. I'll go back and rename Ranma Saotome to Ranma Taro.

As for Yuki... I understand that she has great power, and that it might have been her turn to win. My concern is that by rendering her still able to use an ability like Time Stop (you say that's an actually canon ability from TMoSH? I'm only passingly familiar with Haruhi canon beyond the first anime season and the first novel) ...

Yuki uses time manipulation in the first episode of the 2nd season of TMoSH. That episode only came out recently though - and I only got around to watching it after I had started this fic, and wrote Kyon/Koizumi/Fujisawa vs. Yuki/Nanoha. This put me in the uncomfortable position of having to incorporate in new powers for Yuki that I had not been aware of before (as I'm not a reader of the Haruhi novels).

I really couldn't justify her not using time stop given how useful it would be in an abduction attempt.

Or, perhaps even more likely, Yuki consciously chose not to show off her more powerful abilities, knowing that Galus (whom she doesn't much like) would force her to use them explicitly if he knew she was capable of such power. Of course, if he didn't know before, then he knows now.

I'm leaning towards this in-fanfic explanation. Thank you for suggesting it. I'll add that Yuki used time-stop in this one abducting incident to try to keep civilian casualties to a minimum - letting Galus see this power in full display at this juncture since it's going to be make-or-break time for Galus very soon anyway. If this logic works all-around for you, I'll probably have it stated explicitly in the next chapter or the one following it.

The main thrust I'm getting at is that you've put yourself in the awkward position now of convincing your readers that Yuki can't just stop time and kill anyone in the world whenever she (or, rather, Galus) wants to. And why she never used it before. These are questions your readers WILL have in mind while reading your fanfic, and if they're never properly addressed it could leave many with an unsatisfied feeling. You told ME that using Time Stop might drain Yuki to the point where she's unable to further fight. You did not tell the readers. Even if you did, though, consider that apparently she still has enough in her to Data Drain - so why not use that energy to walk up to a target and snap his or her neck like a twig? Anyway, enough on that - I'm sure you understand my words of caution by now. Don't give a power to a character unless you're prepared not only to tell the audience why she uses it, but also why she DOESN'T use it. (As my bank robber example indicated, many comic book authors are TERRIBLE at this.)  

I see your point. Unforseen developments in the canon TMoSH really threw a monkey wrench into my plot plans.

Lastly, I wanted to apologize for not addressing the Haruhi/Fatora scene.

No problem.

I guess I didn't want to let you down even further, since I knew you probably wrote that scene with me in mind. Since you asked directly, though, I was pretty ho-hum about it. I felt that Haruhi was entirely too flustered by Fatora's proposal. Haruhi's a girl who's used to the unconventional - YEARNS for the unconventional, in fact. I'd think that she'd find Fatora's offer to be interesting (even if she didn't want to partake) rather than embarrassing. Even more importantly, Haruhi's an extraordinarily dominant personality, much like Fatora herself is. It was a bit disheartening to see her so meek in her refusal.

Hhmmm... I respectively find this to be a bit odd. You and Rowan both earlier argued that Haruhi wouldn't have it in her to express romantic feelings for Jinnai, even if she had been keeping them in for a couple of days. Now you're arguing that Haruhi wouldn't be the least bit embarassed being outright propositioned for sex?

It's ironic - my inner thinking when you and Rowan objected to the first romantic Haruhi/Jinnai scene was "Haruhi isn't a meek wallflower. If she's interested in someone, she's going to make it known". Incidentally, this is one of my main issues with the canon Haruhi/Kyon pairing - if Haruhi wanted Kyon as a boyfriend, I think she would have responded to the "dream kiss" between the two of them much more responsively than she did.

Truthfully, I wanted to write Haruhi being a bit of a playful aggressor towards Fatora (since that had been your specific request)... but I just couldn't do it; I just couldn't picture even Haruhi being like that so soon after suffering romantic hurts at Jinnai's words. So, I felt the next best thing was to have Fatora be aggressive towards Haruhi (which I had no problem whatsoever picturing).

I guess the scene fell flat for you. Oh well - at least you liked Megraton of Cyberica. I'm glad you found that to be a cute cameo.


All in all, I guess we just disagree a little bit on Haruhi's canon character.

Her reactions to Fatora can make sense, of course. It more or less fits with Haruhi's desperate desire to make peace - since Fatora's one of the folks she has to convince, it makes sense that she'd be a bit careful in letting Fatora down easy. She's chosen diplomacy and debate as tools for convincing the alliance because the situation is so serious (old, non-serious Haruhi would have chosen tools like intimidation and blackmail to get her way ).

That was a lot of my thinking, too.

Anyway, I hope all this serves as constructive conversation, rather than just bringing you further down. The video, by the way, was cute. "Bunny demon" indeed...

I'm glad you liked it!

In all seriousness, Jinnai's choice of words there (when activating Ifurita) were telling to me. Perhaps it reflects his ideal woman - "deadly little bunny demon". Kind of fits Haruhi to a tee.

I think his taste in women leans much more towards short/cute/adorable than tall/sexy/voluptuous - this also might serve to explain his frenzied rejections of the tall and voluptuous Diva's advances in Alternate World. It also might help to explain why he seemed to get along a bit better with shorter/cuter Kalia than taller/more voluptuous Ifurita.


Anyway, I really appreciate your reply here. It's actually served to pick me up a bit.

[rowan_a._seven]

Special Notes: I've created a heck of a lot of El Hazard nations out of thin air, since the only ones I know of are Roshtaria, Gannan, and Durasland (and three nations just doesn't seem like enough to me). If, however, there are actual canon El Hazard nations that I'm forgetting, I'll gladly put them in place in some of the fanfic nation names I'll come up with. So, I'm all ears there!

Well, I arranged the place names mentioned in the OVAs, TV series, and videogame on the El-Hazard map shown in OVA1 a number of years ago, and although I've since forgotten in what context many of the following appellations were used I think they're either human countries or cities.  Considering most of these were probably one-time references, though, their inclusion isn't terribly important because they're not really well-known.  And you could always argue that most of them are actually cities or dependencies consolidated under the leadership of the rulers shown in this new chapter, anyway.  
Roshtaria
Balta Hill (destroyed by Ifurita, I think)
Geynos
Gannon
Laide
Doros Land
Kobisho
Baron
Duchy of Paralia
Beansland
Ogresio
El Dolash

Anyway, apologies for taking so long to review this chapter.  I've been busy this past week and by the looks of it I could be pretty busy this next week too (with July 4 coming up and all) so I'm not sure if I'll be able to keep up with your commendably fast updating pace.  I'll definitely try, though, and I'm looking forward to seeing how this story turns out now that the final act has dawned.

At any rate, since Spanner already lucidly touched upon cameos and villainous powers I'll try to stick to different matters to avoid repetition, with the exception that I think you took the right approach with your Megatron "cameo."  As Spanner said, it was clearly a different character but with enough overt similarities that the allusion made sense and I could smile and chuckle at it.  

I also applaud your reuse of previously mentioned elements in this chapter.  I didn't expect to see the Bugrom Manual or actual Zala adherents appear, but their inclusions here is a pleasant act of using what you've already created to move the story forward and helps strengthen the cohesiveness of the tale as a whole.  And as you had Galus point out, it's appreciably ironic that the Black Knights of Zala would inadvertently serve the Phantom Tribe's ends.  It is a little surprising to me that they would be able to gain entrance to such a high-profile meeting, but then again considering how easily Jinnai and TV Ifurita infiltrated Baron and that Alliance summit it doesn't sound too farfetched in comparison.  If you go back and edit, however, disclosing that one of Londs' guards was a Zala agent could further help explain how Florestica's defenders were so easily overtaken.  

Mikuru the Cabaret Dancer was an amusing mental image, and I'm relieved that Fatora was relatively...mild in her treatment of the time-traveler.  I guess wanting to impress Haruhi saved Mikuru from Fatora and Alliele's more aggressive tendencies. The rest of that scene was entertaining though, as both you and Spanner mentioned, somewhat restrained in feeling.  I liked Haruhi's talk with Nanami and your efforts to explain how Jinnai's psyche began to become so warped too, but I think your best scene was probably the peace conference.  There were a lot of interesting interactions between personalities there, and it was an intelligent way to stress out Haruhi again and set her up for the Phantom Tribe's plans.  And yes, Yuki's entrance was quite impressive.

The Groucho and Jinnai scene came across as flat to me, though.  I like those two characters and I can understand that you're trying to show how torn Jinnai is, but you could probably accomplish the same with one of Kyon's first-person narratives when you do cover their actual heart-to-heart in the next chapter.  I'm also a little uneasy with the thought of Haruhi gaining the powers of another person when she assumes their facsimile.  It makes sense that she'd be able to understand Bugrom when in Bugrom Queen form since that seems to be a biological ability innate to that Bugrom-type, but when Demon Gods start to enter the picture...well, they're androids, for starters.  Being able to turn organic cells into other organic cells is one thing, but going from organics to technology and back?  That places very few limits on her potential powers, and I think a more limited shapeshifting would work better a la Mystique or Morph from Marvel Comics.  That's just my opinion, however, and arguing for restraint when a character unknowingly has the powers of a god does sound odd.

Anyway, please keep up the entertaining work.  It should be interesting to see how Galus's scheme unfolds from here now that his plans are coming to fruition.  

P.S. Other than the question of whether French names are appropriate for El-Hazard humans, Pierre Chamberlain sounds fine to me.  

P.P.S. How is the second season of Haruhi, by the way?  I heard that the new episodes are being rebroadcast mixed up with the first season episodes, but I haven't started watching them yet.