Post-Alternative World type Idea-esque Things

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

Well, seeing how my previous topic went, it seems that at least the three people who cared to answer it say that for credibility's sake or otherwise, I ought to stick out Alternative World for everything it was worth.

Please note: This topic is a mammoth of ideas.  Read when you've got time and a clear mind.

Said topic.  I'll be building on some things I said there.  Remember most importantly that we lightly discussed the potential of making this project like the Saturn design, that is, where the player has control over some critical events.  These are plot-ish ideas that may help guide potentially good or bad outcomes to things, or may even guide the overall story, of which I don't really have specifically.  I also assume the player will be "Makoto", who for some reason is infinitely pivotal to everything that happens in El-Hazard.

Well, then, even though I still have no idea if actually working on this thing will be 100% feasible -- that'll be answered only in coming months if and once it's technically advanced to where I can start even saying what "it" is -- for curiosity's sake and a bit of preplanning that'll help guide that development, rate some ideas I've got, add or remove as you see fit.

Let's get started:
First, a few quick definitions.  I would NOT have the priestesses just "around" the palace anymore.  They all will go back home to Mt. Muldoon, where they belong during peace time.  "Peace time" is being guessed about 1 or 2 years; not long enough Makoto's figured a way back to Ifurita, but long enough that things will happen on both the "good guy" side and the "bad guy" side.  This also means a majority of the romancing and sexual tensions can be eased -- and perhaps, from here on out, controlled to our liking.  That's the most important.  Anything else I'm only working on... Jinnai's eggs should be hatched and active, maybe Fujisawa's a teacher again, Nanami's probably got a chain of Shinonome Diner's open, etc.  (Also meaning we can take the Makoto / Nanami play out temporarily until or if we want it back in; i.e., she's too busy with her management at first to even think about him.)


Now on to specifics:

THOSE UNDER-DEFINED PEOPLE
ROMANCES
TECHNOLOGICAL


* THOSE UNDER-DEFINED PEOPLE -- I have the least to say about it, because as the title implies, I have no clue either.  The following people could possibly use more inclusion to plots:

Parnosse (and Alielle): Alielle's interesting carbon-copy brother.  He actually seems to get a greater aura of responsibility and maturity over his sister, particularly towards the end.  He's got potential, but what are he and his sister exactly?  How is Alielle in the palace all the time, and Parnosse transporting new priestesses?  Must be a family thing somewhere... although FYI, I loosely suspect Alielle is actually a typical servant/maid of the palace, just one who's been getting special treatment.  Also meaning she still has to work there, you just never hear that part.  (Cleaning the palace by day, sleeping with the princess at night.)

Princess Rune: We vaguely can tell she prefers simpler homemaker type roles when she's on the farm.  And it does seem like Palace/Kingdom distress just makes her fall apart.  Princess Fatora, interestingly, seems to have a lot more gusto in handling those matters.  However, over all, for the elder sister princess, she really doesn't get a lot.  There may not be many ways to include her either.  But maybe she could be optionally a "travel with" party character, just like in the Saturn game that you can take just about any combination of people you want?  She could have useful information or SOMETHING.  Check out Londs too for princess-y relations...

Londs: A character with very little screentime (and thusly the third class rating of this forum )  However, I imagine he's probably been with both of the princesses since they were born, he just seems to have that almost fatherly background to himself.  Not to say he is the father of either of them, that's just creepy.  More like the father they didn't have or something.  It is my suspicion that Londs is actually very much against the Fatora/Alielle relationship which, if he wasn't aware of before, certainly had to have some light shed on it when Alielle smacked lips on Makoto when dressed up the one morning.  (Ever notice how Londs particularly reacts rather sharply, as if suddenly thwacked with a flash of insight?)  
Anyway, it's obvious that Londs has a lot of respect for "proper order" of the royal house.  And "proper order" would certainly require that at least one of the princesses gets married and continues the family name.  (It seems Rune was more or less forced into the Galus relationship, a royal duty as it were, perhaps also a sisterly one.)  Rune's getting older, and is resiliant to marrying "respectable" names, apparently desiring a non-princess simpler life.  That's enough of a problem, but at least under normal circumstance he could rely on Fatora backing up the system if Rune fails.
But he can't.  No way Fatora will ever be interested in any man, and by normal genetics Fatora will never spawn a child with another female.  And all around Londs would obviously see this as a create potential amount of chaos threatening his "order."  I think that, even if its not logically going to end well, selfishly he will latch on to any chance he can get to get rid of Alielle and have a chance to restore "order" one way or another.  I can foresee an evil plot internally, concocted by none other than LONDS.  How's that for imagination?
FYI, you may be able to even note that a situation arose where Alielle was all too easily pushed off into danger, when Makoto was chosen to go to Mt. Muldoon... interestingly when there were obvious flight craft available to get there.  I'll bet Londs was partially behind this.  


* ROMANCES -- Ah, El-Hazard follows anime stereotypes in this department.  The Sega Saturn version was a relief in that at least the player got to say "Y'know, I think he should end up with Rune/Nanami/The Priestesses/Diva ..." or even "Aw, I want Jinnai to take over."  But that's not romance... or at least, I hope it isn't.  Anyway, I don't have a lot in this section except I guess to admit I'd like to see a lot of matches... I'd put Makoto with either Nanami or Shayla myself, depending on my mood at a particular time.  I almost never concider Ifurita, though that must be respected as the Hyashi Eventual.  But if Hyashi isn't around, we can play our games freely.


This is actually something you may have seen me toy with on random occasions... the mixing of Jinnai and Shayla, a perhaps very unlikely couple seeing as they hate each other so much.  But then a lot of psychologists identify this as a manner of denying attraction they can't mentally resolve.  Here's probably the juiciest part of at least possibly allowing this to happen: Priestesses never go bad in the series.  But what if Shayla DOES find herself with the choice of abandoning her position in favor of the master of the supposed evil?  It makes for interesting fodder at the very least.  And obviously within the bounds of this project, that could most likely be only an option, perhaps one reached when Makoto [the player] hasn't been giving Shayla too much to go on to keep up her facination with him.  Maybe even in vengeful spirit she goes to Jinnai as a "I'll show him" attitude result.  Or alternatively something like the fanfiction Fault occurs. (you should ALL read that one.)
No matter what, I don't want another rerun of "all girls on Makoto".  It really gets old, and it's so cheesy.  (I don't see all girls on ME, therefore it must not be realistic. ;p)


TECHNOLOGICAL -- El-Hazard was obviously rampant with technology, kinda like we are today only moreso.  It probably followed the general kind of fate we've seen in many "slightly into the future" cartoons in any form, everything's a computer or computer-driven, living without it is just a myth of the past.  Well, being that I've taken up a Robotics major at the local community college, I should try to control the very vague definitions of El-Hazard technology to some degree.

I see most of everything in El-Hazard is a figment of the technologal past.  And I do mean everything -- right down to the priestess's supposed holy artifacts, the lamps.  Being a scientist type, I don't really accept "magic", everything has a logical explanation that can be backed up with math.  (I.E. I'm a real party pooper.)  Anyway, you can take any of the priestesses lamps, and assume that they're some type of molecular alteration devices.  Obviously such things are difficult to express quantitatively, since I don't really know of anything that yet exists that can do these things, but bear with me.  I'm mostly out to show where from they can bring forth the respective powers.

Anyway, so the lamp of Wind is easy enough to say that it "moves air".  Exactly to what principal this can be done I'm leaving to chemists and physists, although I suspect polarization may have something to do with it.  At least it's notable that there's air all around, so the "source" of this power is practically infinite.

The lamp of Fire could possibly be combusting gasses existant in the atmosphere, or somehow causing massive friction of natural air components against themselves to the point of combustion.

The lamp of Water most likely just collects moisture out of the air or anywhere else it can find it.  Being that moisture is fairly well available most of the time and would require little alteration other than collecting it together, this may indicate why this is merely ring sized, while the others are generally bulkier.  (Shayla's, for example, probably the most difficult, is shown in OAV as a whole body suit system.)

So what?  Potentially, more priestess lamps are available somewhere.  I imagine Makoto could find a crate of them in an old weapons storage or something.  (A realization he'd better keep private lest he potentially ruin society!)  That would mean the whole "holy artifact" thing is, like most other religious definitions in El-Hazard, merely a "mess up in the translation" that occured over years when some people held on to "last ones" of technology pieces.  I'm not here to ruin the priestesses' images (although that could happen), but rather here's a more fun example scenario:

* Bugrom have begun attacking again.  [At least] Makoto is caught in the middle of this warfare.  Shayla shows up [along with the other priestesses] to combat the Bugrom, but suddenly notices Makoto.  Not having seen him in a year/two, she pauses as the memories and feelings flood back into her... long enough that a Bugrom suddenly WHACK sends her flying into a wall, breaking (totally) her lamp.  (Maybe her head too, but that's a more complicated thread.)  This would be about the greatest sin ever, and it would mean the permnant loss of the priestess of fire position!  Could Makoto save the day?  Secretly, he could grab all the pieces, promising Shayla he'll fix it somehow, figures out there's no chance in hell he can, but then finds/remembers the location of the infamous crate supply, and simply replaces it.  No one's the wiser, and Shayla's job and life are saved.


Then there's the Eye of God... that sucker is  infamous and VERY important, because Makoto knows it was a method based on the device that sent him to El-Hazard in the first place.  Hopefully in the time that has passed he's learned something about it.  I'm going to quote something from my college text Basic Electronics from last semester.  (The fact that this was in BASIC Electronics should tell you something about this day and age ;p) -- Did you Know? ... Time travel and warp drive might be possible if a hole could be punched in space and time put into a pretzel.  Unfortunately, today's best particle accelerator is 10¹⁶ times shy the 10¹⁹ billion electron volts needed to accomplish this.
The fact they specifically noted "particle accelerator" made me think of something --

The strange, circular atmospheric disturbance that occured when the Eye of God was activated.  The Eye of God perhaps, at least around its diameter, has a gigantic particle accelerator needed to provide the power to whisk away miles of land into other dimensions!  I suppose transporting a far lesser mass requires far less power, and therefore Makoto has to find perhaps a test version of the particle accelerator used on the Eye of God.  (I'm envisioning visiting old test lab ruins and the like.)  That's the power supply anyway.  The stuff required to open holes and accurately move you somewhere is something else altogether; I have a theory of breaking existance into 5 dimensions X, Y, Z, T, and E.  (XYZ is space, T is time [a moment of], E is existance [helping answer how the essential paradox of Ifurita is possible]) The specific's on these is for another time, but I'm sure learning/understanding 5 dimension math isn't easy. (Just 3 dimensional math requires matrix formulas...)

That brings me into Allujah:

A "character" I never imagined was so debated, here's what I see Allujah as in a nutshell -- An Operating System User Interface that also manages the complicated controls and mathematicals that drive the Eye of God.  I assume time/space travel is something that is way too chaotic and complex for a human mind to even begin to grasp, so you feed it to an artifical one that can realize calculations and mild disturbances along the way in an instant!  So, yes, I see Allujah is merely the software that drives the Eye of God.  The fact that he is in a humanoid form suggests to me that he was meant to be the thing you talked to to operate the Eye.  Unfortunately, like any good software, he is stuck under logic rules that he just can't willfully deny, specifically that nasty little one about being "sealed".  That could be as simple as a single byte or even bit that, when set to "1", means he can't do squat with all the hardware around him.  Perhaps years of being trapped under something so pathetic are what made him crack, too.


Now for EVERYONE'S absolute favorite character, Qawool Towles:

You may wonder why I'm listing her under "technology" bits.  Well, with her comment in-series about feeling like she met Makoto "a long time ago" with their hearts being bound or some such, this made me wonder if she was supposed to be somehow related to Ifurita.  That and the DVD/VHS1 box cover.


I feared Sailor Moon type "daughter of the future" deals, so I avoided those.  (It wouldn't really make sense, either, unless it was a distant future relative instead, but who cares, NO.)  

I then wondered then if maybe her relation to Ifurita was something more intricate.  One idea I had was that her body was the one cloned to produce Ifurita's, which seems fleshy in origin.  (FYI, this makes Ifurita a cyborg.)  You'd use Q's body because she seemed to have a natural ability for manipulating energy, as Ifurita did.  (Primarily shown when scared by a bug.)  Then Qawool was maybe in a suspended animation chamber for one reason or another, and then got out maybe when it failed after thousands of idle years.  To do this route would require an infinite amount of extra backtracking to make it interesting, and also would leave the Qawool base character unaffected for the most part.

So then my latest idea was to assume Qawool was actually a PROTOTYPE OF IFURITA.  This can be backed by many elements.  One, which may even be somewhat amusing to think about, is that as a prototype, she's obviously a model that needs to be "debugged".  It was probably impressed upon her that it was very important to report "bugs".  I'd say that would explain her explosive fear about "bugs".  This can also explain her memory loss, and the fact she seems to live "in the immediate" and forgets just about everything else that isn't a continuous event; it's a bug.  I think of it like this... harddrives have a certain amount of RAM that's a cache.  This cache holds information that is to be written, but while it does the hard work of actually mechanically noting it, the rest of the computer system is free to continue doing its thing.  So, let us assume that Qawool's memory system is bugged that she has a cache, probably a very large one.  If she was being designed as a battle device, she would need to be able to process thinking data very quickly, and only after all things calmed down would it finally be dumped to whatever is her permanant storage system.  The point is, that stuff isn't ever actually "written down" (or readable back, whichever is the case).  That's why when sudden things happen like her initial "A BUG!" explosion, she's found walking the streets of Roshtaria like nothing even happened, including meeting Makoto.  (Of course, that can also be explained by saying that despite her initial reaction, "a bug" is nothing new to her.)  This failure to remember anything that gets outside of the cache would also say why she wouldn't REMEMBER that she was a prototype demon god.  She had a new memory since the day she was wound back up by somebody (cue possible new plot character, or history to someone else like Nahato), and was told to be a 17-year old girl, and to go to the seminary and such.  Whatever was the plot behind it exactly, who knows.  But the fact she IS a computing device might explain her "top marks at the seminary".  Too perfect.  In fact, that's what was noted by member "Jewel of Roshtaria" in another post:

As for Qawool, she has no excuse for being all perfect and innocent and likeable

... no reason except that she's just following a program directive, an order by whoever woke her up.    A shame she probably doesn't even remember that part anymore.  As for "where" she gets wound up... it's probably not anywhere directly visible, enough fan service can confirm that.  I suggest the back of her head, like Ifurit Ab-Zahal of the manga.  That can be excused by the cover of her hair.  Obviously, I do like this route, and it would finally give some definition to Qawool.

[frizbon]

I'm uncertain if your wecloming feedback, but I'v read your post and had a few comments.  As I've mentioned before, I've a tendency to ramble somewhat pointlessly, so if I seem to be going on, please ignore my mindless mutterings.

On reading your ideas for future development for Quawool, I thought of a few points that might throw at least a small bump in the road.  As I am operating only on remembered knowledge of the dub of Alternative (because I love the El Hazard Dub), I've probably got many plot points wrong, but here we go anyways.  

Quawool as a the biological template for Ifurita seems reasonable as long as some explanation for her awakening now and being sent off to the seminary can be found.  However, she mentions to Makoto at some point that she has a "tribe", or large extended family, back home, and that tribe has some strange attachment to her little crest thingy.  Still no reason why she couldn't have been found and adopted, but a small thing to get out of the way.

Quawool as a prototype of Ifurita.  This one runs into some problems.  Throughout alternative world Quawool repeatedly comes into contact with Makoto.  Makoto, as everyone probably knows, can activate machinery, any machinery apparently(by his actions in the alternative world).  He is also not renowned for his high degree of control of this ability.  Even just touching the decrepit LD player caused his veins to glow, bumping into a long inactivated robot caused it to awaken, merely touching Ifurita was enough to trigger a mental intrusion, etc.  If she was some form of Ifurita prototype would she not have set off Makoto's "spider sense" multiple times.

As to the romances, I can only comment on a possible Jinnai / Shayla romance that well... Shayla's multiple romantic entanglements with Makoto have sprung from a single event in which Makoto was willing to trade his life for hers.  This is something that I can not see Jinnai do, not and remain the "lovable" meglomanical skeeving little dictator do.  Of course he could somehow manipulate events that he appeared to do so etc, etc.  But that does not seem a romance anymore than traditional Jinnai tactics, and given Shayla's somewhat enthusiastic, one might even say abusive, way of expressing her feelings, one has to wonder how long he could keep up the charade.  As to the denied attraction, everyone, and their relatives, hates Jinnai, most of them quite passionately.  This subset of the population includes Nanami, Jinnai's sister, and following this thought to it's conclusion can only lead me to say... this way lies madness.  The only people who have ever trully seemed to warm to Jinnai are those who are at least partially at odds with sanity.  Diva, with a meglomania complex, and Kalia, who had psychosis built in.

I find your ideas regarding Alujah intriguing, cetainly it would explain his somewhat disturbing lack of limbs.  I also find your lamp as a mass produced weapon idea highly plausible.  Given Ifurita's comments on recognizing everyone's fighting style, it seems highly likely that the relics were not entirely unique.  Still, given the amount of practice it seems to take to master one of the devices would preclude them being a personal defence weapon one could pick up in a corner shop.

Well that's my bit.  Once again, I apologize if this topic was not meant for discussion, or if I have in anyway offended.  Of course it goes without saying that when one is creating anything, it's your party, and you'll do what you want to.

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

I'm uncertain if your wecloming feedback

It'd be silly to post in a forum without expecting/allowing feedback.    FYI, if I wanted something to be of fixed state, I'd have posted it as news, a document, or locked the topic ahead of time.

Throughout alternative world Quawool repeatedly comes into contact with Makoto.  Makoto, as everyone probably knows, can activate machinery, any machinery apparently(by his actions in the alternative world).  He is also not renowned for his high degree of control of this ability.  Even just touching the decrepit LD player caused his veins to glow, bumping into a long inactivated robot caused it to awaken, merely touching Ifurita was enough to trigger a mental intrusion, etc.  If she was some form of Ifurita prototype would she not have set off Makoto's "spider sense" multiple times.

Actually, I DID think of this, although one could argue one of four things:

1) Since Ifurita, Makoto WAS working with a lot of ancient El-Hazard junk, therefore it's quite possible he HAS gained an amount of manual control.  

2) You could also play the OAV2 Ifurita card -- her memory got "locked out" by Kalia's "virus". (?)  Perhaps for one reason or another, Qawool is locked too.  

3) It could even be the receptors designed for this purpose are as well "bugged out" or shot.

4) The contact must be direct by Makoto's palms or fingertips, and also generally Makoto's will at the time.  It seems Qawool's primary contact is always indirect things, often featuring her latching onto him, instead of the other way around.

... Jinnai / Shayla romance ... This is something that I can not see Jinnai do, not and remain the "lovable" meglomanical skeeving little dictator do.  ... this way lies madness.  The only people who have ever trully seemed to warm to Jinnai are those who are at least partially at odds with sanity.  Diva, with a meglomania complex, and Kalia, who had psychosis built in.

Well, I doubt Kalia had meant ANYTHING more then "weapon" to Jinnai at the moment.  But "this way lies madness" indeed.  First off, I never meant this as a guarenteed event, I'm just thinking of ways we can twist things.  You probably WOULD need a traumatic event like Fault provides to even cause a stir-up of these events.  But that's not important at the moment.  At least from Jinnai's point of view and recalling we're going post-AW at the moment, at the end of AW, Jinnai is essentially raped by Diva for the requirement of egg production.  
Rape isn't mentally tolerated by anyone well, it's a severe violation.  And to that extent, Jinnai will probably have a very large rage and defiance against Diva, and maybe the whole Shayla thing is really a result of psychosis of a new breed for him, some type of defense.  
Really this event would probably require a breakdown on BOTH sides, Jinnai having his Diva issue, and Shayla frustrated over the futile Makoto workings.  I'm not talking about happy, healthy relationships; I'm just looking at potentials.
Alternatively, one could say Jinnai [eventually] enjoyed the event or got some type of gratification at least, which negates this whole paragraph.

I find your ideas regarding Alujah intriguing, cetainly it would explain his somewhat disturbing lack of limbs.

As well as most of what he does, including changing scale as he wills, and why he "lives" inside the core of the Eye that Makoto was toying with.

I also find your lamp as a mass produced weapon idea highly plausible.  Given Ifurita's comments on recognizing everyone's fighting style, it seems highly likely that the relics were not entirely unique.

Exactly.  Of course, you could also say if they WERE unique, they've "been around a long time".  But Ifurita does seem like she had experience with mass amounts of users of these things, especially with the cruel "amateur" rating placed on Miz (?).

Still, given the amount of practice it seems to take to master one of the devices would preclude them being a personal defence weapon one could pick up in a corner shop.

Well, I never doubt that.  I was thinking more like sniper rifle type stuff than a common handgun.  We're looking at something that military institutions would train with for weeks at least.

Of course it goes without saying that when one is creating anything, it's your party, and you'll do what you want to.

Yeah, and I still have the ultimate call. But I open it up to public because it's also true that you can't please everyone, and certainly sticking to an idea that only you yourself likes, well... that's not really fair.  Nor will it really lead to a lot of good when sharing.

[rowan_a._seven]

Very interesting, Rob.  I can see that you have put a great deal of thought into this.  Now it’s time for me to reply.

Alujah – you already know my theory about Alujah, I now know yours, and neither one of us can prove the other wrong.  Alujah’s origins and history are currently complete unknowns, and the possibilities are practically endless for fan speculation.  Yours makes a great deal of sense and seems to be very well thought out, and, while I don’t necessarily agree with it, I don’t have any problems with it either.

Qawool – an interesting idea, I will admit.  It even makes a certain amount of sense.  However, I think it could be refined and made a bit more practical.  I also see a slight problem with your theory, though this is only applicable if you use Wanderers continuity to flesh out the Magnificent World a bit more.  In the TV series, those seeking to become priestesses left to attend seminary at what I’m assuming is the grade-school level and had to spend several years taking the necessary classes and being instructed in the manipulation of elemental power.  A person could conceivably skip a year or two, but it is highly unlikely that a 17-year-old Qawool could show up, complete every requirement in the matter of a year, and be chosen as the next water priestess.  It is also at least partially improbable that nobody would ever notice a wind up slot, since it would be likely that a full medical examination would be performed on all applicants to ensure that they’re not Phantom Tribe infiltrators.  Now, since this topic seems to encourage the bouncing back and forth of ideas, here’s your idea bounced back after traveling through my mind.  Please don’t run away.  

Assuming Ifurita is a cyborg and that Qawool is a mature, non-cybernetically enhanced clone of Ifurita’s biological components, there are arguably simpler explanations for her behaviors.  As a baby or perhaps even before her “birth” the ancient scientists would probably alter/warp/train her brain to work along the lines of a computer since I’m assuming a developing mind is much easier to mold than an adult one.  She would be able to process and memorize data quickly and efficiently and probably possess a photographic memory, hence her “top marks at the seminary.”  Miscellaneous memories, such as being saved by Makoto, would be filed away and not reprocessed until they become relevant again, explaining her actions after the Bugrom “attack” and Makoto’s disappearance.  It wasn’t germane to her current circumstances so she wasn’t overly concerned about it.  

It is also likely that Demon Gods-to-be would have a basic obedience instruction encoded and be malleable to symbols of authority to make the later absolute obedience easier to pull off.  Qawool was ordered to go to Florestica by the Holy Order of Muldoon and report to Priestess Miz, so that would be her first priority, even above looking for those who had accompanied and assisted her (Parnosse and Makoto).  However, Qawool, probably through the influence of seminary and her tribe, has been taught to work within a set of rules such as don’t cheat, don’t steal, etc.  When she learned that she had to either pay or work for Nanami in exchange for the food she ate, her learned operating parameters kicked in and demanded that she pay off her debt before completing her primary objective.  Therefore her priorities were temporarily reordered.  After she had satisfied Nanami and reported to Priestess Miz, she would be free to search for Makoto and Parnosse and probably would’ve had not they both turned up when they did.

As for her fear of bugs, this could be a natural phobia or the result of more mental manipulation.  With the technology of the Ancients, it is conceivable that in addition to training and restructuring a mind a basic operating program could be installed in or imprinted on a brain as well.  This program would be able to label creatures as masters, allies, neutrals, enemies/threats, etc. and recommend a response.  Since Qawool probably would've been created near the end of the Holy Wars, Bugrom would likely be perceived as an enemy/threat/danger and the programmed reaction be panic/run/eliminate.  Over the course of her suspended animation until the present El-Hazard, the “Bugrom” label could’ve deteriorated or been corrupted to “Bug.”

Her great elemental power is almost certainly the result of genetic engineering performed in order to enable the body to withstand the stress of channeling energies on the Demon God scale.  In this scenario, if Qawool received the proper training she would be as equally proficient with Air and Fire as she is with Water.

Now, as for her history, as I already wrote she was probably created near the end of the Holy Wars and that as a baby or small child, after the mental and genetic modifications were completed, Qawool was placed in a human hibernation chamber and would remain in there until the ancient scientists were ready to accelerate her growth, install the cybernetic components, and transform her into another Ifurita unit.  However, before this next phase could begin, the Eye of God devastated the world, the Holy Wars came to an abrupt and violent end, and the location of her stasis unit was forgotten.

Time passed until finally, sixteen-to-seventeen years or so before the first OAV series, Qawool was freed either through mechanical malfunction or discovery and adopted by a human tribe which practiced a form of socialism, explaining her assumption that she wouldn’t need to pay money for food since, where she comes from, food is shared by all so long as everybody performs their duties.  Meals at seminary were probably free as well, further reinforcing this notion.  

As a child, when Qawool was taught to be polite, nice, not to lie, not to cheat, etc., this was taken as further operating protocal, and the natural perception of her instructor/village elder/guardian as an authoritarian figure led to more or less unquestioned obedience.  The same relationship of deference applies to the Holy Order of Muldoon and Priestess Miz until she became ex-Priestess Miz.  

It is probable that Qawool’s mental programming causes her to perceive social relationships as a set of roles.  Shayla-Shayla is the Fire Priestess, her fellow coworker, and a person who should be respected hence why Qawool never seems to doubt her or be annoyed by her antics.  After all, Shayla-Shayla is a great priestess which implies wisdom so she must have a good reason for everything she does.  Friends are people who hang out and perform recreational activities together, converse, care about one another, and help when needed.  Priestesses should be respected and believed, and if a priestess shows up that she hasn’t heard of there must be a good reason and she should still follow instructions…so long as they don’t contradict any of her other directives.  Makoto is a handsome boy roughly her own age who is intelligent, kind, treats her with respect, and has saved her life.  Just about everything she has learned probably indicates that she should be in love with him, so her mind, to fulfill the mental role and categorization, simulates the emotion of love and convinces her that she is in love with him.

As for herself, Qawool does have a distinct personality and set of feelings, but it’s buried, obscured, and heavily influenced by her mental programming which shapes the directions of her thoughts and responses.  Love is a very hard emotion to control though, so now that she has fallen in love with Makoto her inner self might grow in strength and come into conflict with her programming as a consequence.  She’s a completely organic Ifurita with a weaker and much simpler operating program, her own separate personality, and lacks the memories most Ifurita Demon Gods possess (i.e. destroying entire cities).

Alliele & Parnosse – I agree with you that they and their family are servants of the government and probably high-ranking ones at that.  By all indications, Alliele is technically a handmaiden to Fatora (at least it makes sense if she is), and Parnosse served as a guide to the incoming Priestess of Water, a job that would almost certainly be given only to a trusted and eminent attendant.

Princess Rune – personally, I believe her to be rather competent and good at ruling, though I concur that she would probably prefer a simpler life.  As for fitting her in a story, you could always make use of a de-aging agent and have her revert to the younger and less mature TV Rune Venus persona.  More seriously though, you could add a political aspect to the story with a diplomatic crisis cropping up and dividing the Human Alliance when they need to be unified against a renewed Bugrom or Phantom Tribe threat.  

Londs – a fascinating and disquieting analysis.  Unless things get very desperate though, I don’t see him actively trying to get rid of Alliele and forcing Fatora into a more…conventional relationship.  Sure, he might argue with Fatora or Alliele, remind the former of her duties, and look the other way when the latter wishes to go with Makoto or somebody else into a dangerous situation, but it is doubtful that he’ll actually try to kill Alliele.  As for not letting them use a flight craft, it probably states somewhere that supplicants to the Holy Priestesses must ascend Mt. Muldoon by foot.

Romances – eh, not much to comment on here.  Fish has certainly proved that odd pairings can be done when written well, and a little variation from standard pairings would probably be enjoyable to read.

Technology – all of what you wrote sounds pretty feasible, though I don’t know about Makoto finding an entire crate of lamps.  Perhaps a small chest with only three or so.  Only three users still exist in the present, and if elemental lamps were somewhat common in ancient times one would think that instead of a triple priesthood there would be an elite order or something instead.  Probably each kingdom had their own set of three elemental users, but most of them died during the Holy Wars and the survivors wanted to make sure that their powers would never be used for political purposes again and limited their number to three for the entire human race.  Still, this is only my interpretation of the matter, and there isn't any real evidence to lend support one way or another.

SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS! DO NOT READ FURTHER IF YOU MIND HAVING IMPORTANT FANFICTION STORY ASPECTS AND REVELATIONS SPOILED!










By the way, the "Qawool is Ifurita's daughter from the future" theory has already been done by somebody and (IMO) done quite well at that.  You can find that story here:  
http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=410247  

Also, if you plan on including the Phantom Tribe in this project, you might want to read this story:  http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=743761
It's a very captivating character study of Galus as a youth, and through him a convincing and fascinating facet of Phantom Tribe life is revealed.

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

I'll get around to the stories later when I'm less busy, but okay.  
I'm sure the Qawool-future-daughter bit has been done, I just think it's cheesy and I didn't incredibly care for the way it happened in Sailor Moon (I used to watch it many years ago with my sister before school, FYI.)  So I have a predisposed "Meh" towards it.  Also the fact that she only "feels like" she knew Makoto from long ago or whatever makes it kind of quirky.  

The last moments before Qawool wound up in El-Hazard:
Q: "Yeah, I think I know you from sometime long ago."
M: "I'm your dad."
Q: "Our hearts our bonded..."
M: "Okay, now you're freakin' me out.  Off to El-Hazard you go to bother my past self! *ZAP*"

Now, granted I haven't read the potentially good story which may give me new insight.

Part of my bias when determining Qawool as NOT BEING the cyborgian base for Ifurita is actually partly sister influence; she's a robot nut, but doesn't care for cyborgs.  But seeing two of you have pushed for it, I may seriously have to reconcider.  Well, that is, I like the way you put it, which was more or less my original second stage idea.  (Although you put a much finer point on it then I ever did, since it didn't last long enough before I fell into the third stage.)

all of what you wrote sounds pretty feasible, though I don't know about Makoto finding an entire crate of lamps

That was just a ballpark figure.  I'm sure it could be reduced immensely.  But also remember I base ideas on the theory that, once the big "end" happened to the war, people remaining probably decided that their children from generations forward would be brought away from the "evil" technology and back to a more natural way of living.  Thus, the current society of El-Hazard with big castles and desert towns becomes the reality, where technology is only this religious myth of the past.  Something really bad happened, and no one is sure what it is.
Having said that, any [sensible] number of lamps can be stocked away somewhere, assuming that one particular person, probably NOT in the interest of anything remotely like the priestesses of present, took one of each and held onto them as treasure.  ("Holy Artifacts" indeed.)  By only having one of each, and the covering up the location which would eventually be completely lost in passage of years, the singles became of incredible value.  Somewhere there's a gap when this got translated into the elemental-based religion that exists now.  But that's how you'd have lots in existance, but only three ever known.

Princess Rune – personally, I believe her to be rather competent and good at ruling

I never said she wasn't.  I just said she seems to take it too hard.

As for fitting her in a story, you could always make use of a de-aging agent and have her revert to the younger and less mature TV Rune Venus persona.

I know you didn't quite mean that too seriously (at least, I don't think), but just to work with for a second; I don't really think that would help her in any particular way.  It'd probably only cause more trouble then good.    Especially with Londs, as you've read...

More seriously though, you could add a political aspect to the story with a diplomatic crisis cropping up and dividing the Human Alliance when they need to be unified against a renewed Bugrom or Phantom Tribe threat.

Kinda like OAV1 or something more intricate?  

Londs – a fascinating and disquieting analysis.  ... it is doubtful that he’ll actually try to kill Alliele.  

Not him directly.  I suspect that Londs is in constant arguement with himself.  Alielle is the great problem, but Londs himself needs to "get rid" of her.  Actively killing her could very well result in disloyalty from Princess Fatora, much less being imprisoned.  So the next best thing is to push her out of the way as much as possible to dilute the problem until he can figure out the optimum method of fixing it permnantly.  If Alielle happens to be killed by Bugrom or something else... well, that's the risk of a royal house member assisting in royal matters, isn't it?

As for not letting them use a flight craft, it probably states somewhere that supplicants to the Holy Priestesses must ascend Mt. Muldoon by foot.

That's a logical one and what we probably ALL assume, I was just twisting it to link to the point.



Oh, and I forgot to mention one of the most undefined characters of them all -- Priestess of Wind, Afura.  We need some character attributes and/or something defining about her, badly.  All she's really got is the position of "balancing".  And her non-Wanderers form seems like a nice, mature girl.  
As opposed to the bitch she is otherwise in Wanderers / Sega Saturn.
If anyone ever saw a really great story featuring her, and I don't really care what they applied as long as it was stunning, I want to hear about it.

[larewen_evenstar]

Am i allowed to say that i am really confused?

[jewel_of_roshtaria]

I just wanted to add just a tiny little suggestion to your rather intriguing descriptions of the Lamps Rob. I'm thinking that htey are some sort of objects controlled by mental abilities. After all, in the Wanderers, they say that a Priestess must go through rigourous mental and physical training to use them. Perhaps all of that meditating strengthens thier mental capacities, and therefore, just maybe, they don't nessesiarlily need the lamps to be able to control thier element, that the Lamps just work as a sort of conductor to help them focus thier abilities? At least, that's what the OAV lead me to believe.   I alos think that the Lamos a re gender specific, so that even if Makoto went through all the training Shayla did, he wouldn't be able to do dick with the Lamp Of Fire. Perhaps controlling the lamp is more genetic than anything, which would explain why all the fire priestesses had red hair, and all the water priestesses had pastel purple and blue (They always look the part)

Also, I'm flattered my insulting Qawool inspired you to do a section of this!   I like your ideas on how Qawool is a Demon God, I believe that the "Ancient Tribe" that was previouly mentioned was perhaps the origional creators of Ifurita. So, in a way, Qawool is realted to her, sine she was made in a likeness of her former ancestors. That would also explain why Qawool and Ifurita have the same color eyes, hair, skin, etc. I'm also sure that Qawool's tribe created the Eye Of God, which would explain her strange and rather annoying link with the very device used to switch it off. Maybe that switch was created as a way to ensure that the Eye Of God would never destroy the world, as it did, and maybe that is why Ifurita was created, to protect it.

Just a thought.

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

I'm thinking that htey are some sort of objects controlled by mental abilities.

Well, in all fairness, this was a discussion of quantity, not so much usage.  But I'm sure they work like the other pieces of the past, physical/mental interaction devices, yes.

After all, in the Wanderers, they say that a Priestess must go through rigourous mental and physical training to use them.

Physical could be anything, up to and including "backlash" force effects from using the lamps.  Mental would be like learning to walk.  That takes extreme coordination and learning to balance and stuff.  Surely some type of concentration and coordination is needed to control those blasts of element.
P.S. Since we're working on AW, Wanderers stuff is to be taken with a grain of salt; there are too many conflicts to assume what it defines as reality are global ideas, obviously.

At least, that's what the OAV lead me to believe.   I alos think that the Lamos a re gender specific, so that even if Makoto went through all the training Shayla did, he wouldn't be able to do dick with the Lamp Of Fire. Perhaps controlling the lamp is more genetic than anything, which would explain why all the fire priestesses had red hair, and all the water priestesses had pastel purple and blue (They always look the part)  

Well, TECHNICALLY I think the hair is just an artist's facet.  But as far as genetics are concerned, concidering they can interface with the Eye of God and such, I suspect they have a similar but possibly limited version of Makoto's ability at their disposal.  Same with the two princesses.

I like your ideas on how Qawool is a Demon God, I believe that the "Ancient Tribe" that was previouly mentioned was perhaps the origional creators of Ifurita. So, in a way, Qawool is realted to her, sine she was made in a likeness of her former ancestors. That would also explain why Qawool and Ifurita have the same color eyes, hair, skin, etc. I'm also sure that Qawool's tribe created the Eye Of God, which would explain her strange and rather annoying link with the very device used to switch it off. Maybe that switch was created as a way to ensure that the Eye Of God would never destroy the world, as it did, and maybe that is why Ifurita was created, to protect it.  

Well, UP TO that point.  See, I think the Eye of God was created by the "Northern Capital", where Roshtaria and other "good guy" places now reside.  Ifurita was created and used by people who lived on the now-dubbed "Forbidden Island" (read: Country you're at war with, and therefore are not allowed to travel to)... just because Ifurita [Final] was put to sleep even before the Eye was completed.

[rowan_a._seven]

Part of my bias when determining Qawool as NOT BEING the cyborgian base for Ifurita is actually partly sister influence; she's a robot nut, but doesn't care for cyborgs.  But seeing two of you have pushed for it, I may seriously have to reconcider.  

Qawool being an Ifurita clone just seems more plausible than her being an Ifurita prototype to me.  The prototype theory could work, but you would probably have to do a whole lot of explaining to satisfy a perceptive audience.  IMO, TV Ifurita would work out much better as an OAV Ifurita prototype.  

Kinda like OAV1 or something more intricate?  

Something more intricate.  In OAV1, there was never any danger of the Alliance shattering.  It was more a matter of reassuring the various delegates that they could still win, keeping everybody calm, and preventing widespread panic.  Now, however, the situation is drastically different and open to internal dispute.  

Going by the El-Hazard Role-Playing Game and Resource Book, there were 24 representatives of the Alliance who came to discuss the Bugrom threat with Princess Rune Venus.  Six kingdoms/nations/tribes of the Alliance were also named in the Magnificent World:  Roshtaria, Balta Hill, Doros Land, Gannan, Geynos, and Laide, and between the Bugrom invasion and the out-of-control Eye of God they all suffered damage.  The Alternative World makes reference to the Duchy of Paralia and Beansland, and if you include the Wanderers continuity there are also Ogresio, Baron, El Dolash, Kobisho, Disano Highlands, and Volcano Lisabi, though the last two sound more like geographical features than actual countries.  At any rate, there's likely twelve or more members of the Alliance.  

The eastern nations all appear to be heavily damaged at the end of the Magnificent World, while any Alliance nations to the west probably escaped the conflict relatively unscathed.  The Bugrom invasion also devastated the eastern military forces.  Now, as an Alliance, member nations probably have an agreement to the effect that they'll defend each other against outside attacks and help one another rebuild after disasters.  This would likely result in the western Alliance nations/tribes having to raise taxes and sending massive amounts of _their_ resources and finances to the eastern Alliance nations to repair eastern cities and militaries.  This has the potential to strain relations between the West and East.

There is also the question of Roshtaria's future role in the Alliance.  The current risks of using the Eye of God are so horrific that it's unlikely to be unsealed again for a very long time.  To my knowledge, all Ifurita did at the end of OAV1 was deactivate the Eye of God.  Galus' sabotage likely remains unfixed, and without someone like Makoto to turn it off immediately after the target is obliterated the entire world could be decimated.  There's now so much that could potentially go wrong if the Alliance attempted to use the Eye of God again that the Ancient's ultimate weapon is effectively useless.  It's too dangerous to use unless one is suicidal.

Since the Roshtarian royal family's control over the Eye of God is probably one of if not _the_ main reason why they're the head of the Alliance, a situation now exists where the need for Roshtaria's leadership of the Alliance could be questioned and weakened, causing more conflict and division.

Additionally, the Alliance probably perceives the current Bugrom threat as trivial and miniscule.  It is unlikely that they believe the Bugrom Empire can bounce back and become a serious danger again in only a few short years since they seem to know extremely little about the Bugrom.  So long as Jinnai limits the Bugrom to minor raids and keeps his growing army out of sight until he's prepared to launch another offensive, the Alliance will have no pressing need to maintain a strong sense of unity.

Now, admittedly, all of these problems are solvable and wouldn't necessarily spell doom for the Alliance as a functioning partnership, but one can also insert the Phantom Tribe into this scenario.  Should the Phantom Tribe reinfiltrate the Alliance, they would have the ability to exacerbate and intensify these divisions and tensions, thus undermining and potentially breaking the organization as a whole.

Without a powerful and dangerous enemy to unite against, peace could prove to be the most dangerous foe the Alliance has ever dealt with.

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

Well, so far I'm seeing the primary conflict resides within political issues and right to power, more then anything.

Should the Phantom Tribe reinfiltrate the Alliance, they would have the ability to exacerbate and intensify these divisions and tensions, thus undermining and potentially breaking the organization as a whole.

Do you mean as having more Phantom people directly, like Galus, disguising themselves as other people and taking positions in particular divisions?  Essentially ones trained to create political issues towards the favor of wreaking havoc on their bonds.

IMO, TV Ifurita would work out much better as an OAV Ifurita prototype.

I've thought of that before, one of my first ideas.  But that was only because I was thinking how one could incorporate the character because she has an innocence and annoying cuteness about her.  (Not to be confused with Qawool's annoying innocence. )  I've instead decided I might try using the character model for something else as well, but that's another story...

[mark_engels]

Do you mean as having more Phantom people directly, like Galus, disguising themselves as other people and taking positions in particular divisions?  Essentially ones trained to create political issues towards the favor of wreaking havoc on their bonds.

Author Ken Wolfe explored a very interesting variant of this idea in his "El Hazard: Earth" series.  Any of you who've read about The Silent Invasion will know what I'm talking about.  For those that might not, the entire Earth series is really worth a read.  I noticed rave reviews of the series from both ff.net and our own Mr. Adcock.  

--me

Mark Engels

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

Okay, I won't probably be reading fanfiction until at least the end of this week, when my semester break comes up.  Naturally, because it's the semester break coming up, you can expect this week is packed with due dates, exams, and all the things that take the fun, energy, and time out of life.

[larewen_evenstar]

Yip. Still confused.

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

You need to see all of the El-Hazard animated series to even vaguely understand this, okay? :p

[Saucer]

Very interesting points you all have. I personally feel though, that Ifurita is cloned/blueprinted/other from Qawoor's people, rather than from Qawoor herself. That is assuming (quite rightly) that Qawoor's tribe are descendants of the ancient people of El Hazard, who built/created/whatever Ifurita. Which would explain the similar appearence, powers and such.