El-Hazard 2

[jewel_of_roshtaria]

I finally saw the imfamous El-Hazard 2, and Wow, does Fatora get some action in this one!   I must say, it was low of her to take Shayla's first kiss, but it was worth it to see all that neat Fire Priestess Action!   It doesn't hold a candle to the first one, or even the Alternative World, for that matter, I think it was because it was so short, there really wasn't any time to build tension. It really was worth the money I paid for it, though!

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

I think you make the first one I've ever known who actually liked AW over OAV2 (no problem with that, I just find it interesting.)

Yes, OAV2 was very short, I think all around it seems like a rush job.  My biggest complaint is that it needlessly complicated matters by adding a second Ifurita, which makes my story write-ups so darn difficult.  

Hmm, I guess OAV2 also had some problems in the area that a lot of people said it was "more of the same", that is, kind of a rerun of OAV1.  I wouldn't say it's a rerun so much, but it certainly didn't prove any revelations or advance characters in any real way.  At the end, Fujisawa and Miz did get to show real affection for each other, but Nanami and Shayla's Makoto feelings hadn't advanced at all, Makoto hadn't made any steps closer to getting them home, etc.  

At least Alternative World includes Makoto clearly having gear out working on his problem of getting them home, and ends on the note spoken by Afura "Well, now you two have nothing to argue about." (which probably isn't quite true, but nonetheless tries to indicate defeat)

[jewel_of_roshtaria]

The big problems I had with it was that there was no time for Kalia to get any charactor development. At least in AW, I had time to decide wether ir not I liked Qawool (which, I've now decided, I do not). I would have liked a little more on Yuba too, like how he came by Ifurita, and more on how they spent thier life together. He's a nifty guy, but I can't help feeling that he was just an extra, like the infamous Produce Boy...  :-/

[Neil Lafrenais]

In the defense of El-Hazard 2, at least the series is concise in it's exploration/introduction of characters and other funny quirks (even though it generally has a weak story line and less than desireable animation).

The first two episodes were great in my opinion and explored some characters not heavily showcased in the original OAV (Fatora, Miz) and shown a new side to some existing characters (Jinnai's slapstick).

All in all, EH2 kinda really breaks down when it starts relying on plot and less on the funny (ie.. Eps 3 and 4).

And what's wrong with short? That way it doesn't drivel on for hours on end!

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

The first two episodes were great in my opinion and explored some characters not heavily showcased in the original OAV (Fatora, Miz) and shown a new side to some existing characters (Jinnai's slapstick).

Agreed.

All in all, EH2 kinda really breaks down when it starts relying on plot and less on the funny (ie.. Eps 3 and 4).

Well, in my opinion, nothing with an aura of seriousness can rely on demanded humor either.  There's just nothing really funny about something that's going to envelope the whole universe.

And what's wrong with short? That way it doesn't drivel on for hours on end!

Short by itself is not the problem, because too long is also about the same effect.  However, you should allocate enough time to make sure you cover all the grounds you introduce, and I do think a lot of the ground they introduced had a rather short life cycle...

[rowan_a._seven]

Magnificent World 2 vs. the Alternative World, eh?  Well, these are my thoughts on the matter.

Characters:  
MW2, while not as strong as the 1st Magnificent World, still had a fair share of good character moments and was, at the very least, consistently decent in this regard.  There were a few moments here and there that made me do a doubletake, and I feel that more could've been done with Kalia, Ifurita 2, and Yuba, but watching the El-Hazard cast here never greatly frustrated me.

The Alternative World, on the other hand, did not, in my opinion, do much for the regular cast.  Upon a first viewing, most of the cast came across as bland or cardboard cut-outs of their OAV1 selves.  A second viewing upgraded this to tolerable but very irritating.  Conversely, though, the new and supporting characters fared rather well.  Gilda was terrific, and even Dall was enjoyable to watch once he stopped chasing Quawool and became brooding and serious.  Groucho received some character development, and Arjah had much promise.  I have ambivalent feelings towards Quawool and Parnasse.

Winner:  Magnificent World 2
While the Alternative World dealt the supporting characters a better hand, as a whole the characterizations annoyed and bothered me more.  In the 2nd OAV series, the characters were, on average, pleasant to watch.

Animation Quality:
The animation in OAV2 was more consistent than that in the Alternative World, I believe.  OAV2's animation quality was fair with a little bit of good and bad mixed in, but the Alternative World seesawed somewhat.  A lot of scenes felt less...alive than their OAV counterparts, though there was at least one outstanding locale that really caught my attention.

Winner:  OAV2
Except for one odd scene with Kalia's facial expression, there isn't much that continues to stick out as glaring in my mind for OAV2.  The Alternative World, while having its better moments, seemed more generally lackluster.

Story:
As much as the Alternative World aggravated me, I do have to admit that buried in there lies fantastic story potential.  What is the connection between the two worlds?  What will happen to Rune's new relationship?  What's the deal with Dall and Gilda?  What's the story behind this new world?  Who is Arjah?  Unfortunately, the producers appear to be happy with raising questions and not answering them.  Rune's farmer boyfriend seemed to completely disappear, very little of the Alternative world's backstory is given,  and Arjah remains a mystery with theories of his identity ranging from the personification of the Eye of God to the creator of the Eye of God to a future version of Jinnai and practically anything in between.  About only Dall and Gilda had any closure.

OAV2 had a decent story that, to my knowledge, succeeded in doing what it set out to accomplish.  Certain characters received some good development, and a bit more of El-Hazard's past and ancient technology were revealed.

Winner:  The Alternative World (barely)
Despite its many pestering points and loose ends, the Alternative World did make me think more than the Magnificent World 2 did.  For that, I'm willing to rate it a little bit higher.

Powerful Moments:
I felt that OAV2's tension was undermined at times by the dialogue, and that its scenes were more fair than outstanding.  It does have some really good moments, though.  However, the Alternative World has what I consider to be an incredibly powerful scene near the end that continues to stick in my head more than any of the Magnificent World 2's.  For those of you who have seen the Alternative World, I'm refering to Makoto's temptation by Arjah.

Winner:  The Alternative World
Arjah's scene was the deciding factor in this one.

Overall Enjoyability:
To me, a lot of the Alternative World was irritating and boring, but it was interlaced with several noteworthy and enjoyable spots here and there that make it worth watching at least once or twice.  OAV2, in contrast, was reliably pleasant with a few scattered annoying moments.  It also features what I consider to be better character interactions and dialogue.  Jinnai and Kalia had some entertaining scenes in the beginning, and Kalia's "LGJ" comment is worth a few chuckles.

Winner:  The Magnificent World 2

Totals:
OAV2:  3
AW:  2

Victor:  OAV2

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

As much as the Alternative World aggravated me, I do have to admit that buried in there lies fantastic story potential... Unfortunately, the producers appear to be happy with raising questions and not answering them.

Which I feel means you need to think a little more about it

What is the connection between the two worlds?

Very loosely, I suspect it could be a mid-point time period, somewhere after the great wars of El-Hazard, but before all the technology had fully died out.  Also, it could just be an Allujah (common English spelling and pronounciation, and the way I'll use it) trick, perhaps it's the same world, different country (never know what goes on around the other side of the world?)  And maybe it really IS just another world altogether, but when you control the Eye of God, you can do stuff like that.

What will happen to Rune's new relationship? ... Rune's farmer boyfriend seemed to completely disappear

What you DO learn is, apparently Rune is not happy as the big royal princess (while Fatora obviously can't get enough of it).  Apparently Rune actually would desire a simple, more common life. (And remembering the amount of stress she seems to constantly express every time something goes wrong, both in OAV1 and AW, I would think she really isn't cut out personality wise to deal with it well.)
As for the farmer himself, well, he disapeared shortly after the whole farming colony fell apart.  I speculate he was simply lost over the edge, just like Rune almost was.  But of course, this isn't guarenteed, so who knows...

What's the deal with Dall and Gilda?

More specifically?

Who is Arjah? ... Arjah remains a mystery with theories of his identity ranging from the personification of the Eye of God to the creator of the Eye of God to a future version of Jinnai and practically anything in between.

We [that's me and my brother, speculator extraordinaire] have had several working theories, but ultimately, the one we've agreed on is that he is, essentially, the Operating System of the Eye of God.  After all, he appears primarily when Makoto is interfacing the big Eye itself, and is also trapped when the hulk is sealed.  Makes sense that he is merely the "software" of the ancient computer systems.  Some sort of sentinent user interface gone crazy.  
We HAD tried the "creator" approach, and no one's sure to deny that our OS UI isn't possibly a recreation of the creator himself (we didn't get that into depth with it), but we don't assume him directly as the creator himself.
And I don't think Jinnai at all, never even occured.  Allujah looks nothing like him, although I guess the personality is similar, at least enough to entice Jinnai.  Jinnai also never really came off to me as the technology type, so I don't believe in this in any form.

[rowan_a._seven]

Very loosely, I suspect it could be a mid-point time period, somewhere after the great wars of El-Hazard, but before all the technology had fully died out.  

That was one of my first theories too, but upon additional consideration I've developed a second idea that goes something like this.  The dates are just guesses.

0 - End of the Ancient Wars
One or several countries on the receiving end of the Eye of God are transported through time and space and arrive on the Alternative World.  Before they were defeated, however, they succeeded in stealing the schematics for the Eye of God and, wishing to return to their homeworld, begin building their own duplicate.  Unfortunately, they succeed so well that the two Eye of Gods become unknowingly connected through some extradimensional link or component which allows Arjah to later interfere in both worlds.

50 - With the Eye of God finished, the Ancients genetically link it to their leaders, and everyone begins a massive military build-up to prepare for the invasion of El-Hazard.

100 - The Ancients are ready to renew their war, but before they can open a portal to El-Hazard their Eye of God goes haywire, devastates the Alternative World, and shatters, beginning a new ice age.

The Ancients, realizing that if they hadn't built the Eye of God in order to return to their homeworld and obtain revenge none of this destruction would've happened, regret their actions and instead of rebuilding the Eye of God convert its surviving pieces into floating farms and construct a power generator out of its core to provide sustenance for the nations until the ice age is over.  To make sure nobody ever tries to reconnect the Eye of God, they construct an elaborate seal to keep it locked down and separated.  

Times passes, their history is forgotten and fades into myth, and the descendants of the leaders are scattered till only the Cretorian royal family can still be certain of their lineage.

3000 - The Alternative World begins.

What's the deal with Dall and Gilda?
More specifically?  

I just meant that at the beginning of the series there did seem to be some shared history between the two, which was later verified to be true and explained in later episodes.

We [that's me and my brother, speculator extraordinaire] have had several working theories, but ultimately, the one we've agreed on is that he is, essentially, the Operating System of the Eye of God.  After all, he appears primarily when Makoto is interfacing the big Eye itself, and is also trapped when the hulk is sealed.  Makes sense that he is merely the "software" of the ancient computer systems.  Some sort of sentinent user interface gone crazy.  
We HAD tried the "creator" approach, and no one's sure to deny that our OS UI isn't possibly a recreation of the creator himself (we didn't get that into depth with it), but we don't assume him directly as the creator himself.
And I don't think Jinnai at all, never even occured.  Allujah looks nothing like him, although I guess the personality is similar, at least enough to entice Jinnai.  Jinnai also never really came off to me as the technology type, so I don't believe in this in any form.

The prospect that Arjah is a future version of Jinnai comes from a fanfiction I read on fanfiction.net by Eponymous called Something Different.  Its main purpose is to provide an origin for Qawool, but it also reveals aspects of a possible future.  This theory gained additional plausibility in my mind when I spotted the similarities between Arjah and Jinnai's personalities, and I wouldn't put technology past Jinnai.  He is Shinonome's second best student and has access to at least two partially intact ancient ruins and a large component of the Trigger of Destruction.  Given some spare time, I wouldn't be too surprised if he gained a working knowledge of some ancient technology in the future.

Still, objectively speaking, Arjah could be just about anybody or anything.  The series revealed very little about his origins.  We know that he's sealed in the Eye of God and can travel or at the very least communicate between the two worlds, that he can create elaborate mental projections or illusions on a level rivaling or surpassing that of the Phantom Tribe, appears to be able to synchronize with technology much like Makoto's ability, can possess and possibly hypnotize people, knows how to use Ancient technology and might even understand how it works, has considerable knowledge about both worlds and the people in them such as Jinnai, Gilda, and Makoto, and seems to want to conquer the world.  He is also incredibly cunning and patient and is quite skilled at manipulating people.  His only mistake in the Alternative World was underestimating Makoto's resolve to do the right thing in the face of temptation.  We are given a lot about his powers and knowledge but almost nothing about his background and true identity.

A few more speculations on the Alternative World I'd like to present...

Termite (White) Bugrom - If you subscribe to the theory that the Ancients made the Bugrom as weapons who later became obsolete upon the invention of Demon Gods, the Termite Bugrom could be the original Bugrom race that the Ancients genetically enhanced and altered to create the current Bugrom.  A hive of Termite Bugrom could've been transported to the Alternative World with the other nations by the Eye of God where they carved out a niche for themselves while on El-Hazard they died out due to climate changes and warfare.

Destruction of the AW Eye of God (in 100) - I suspect that Arjah caused this.  If the Eye of God can transport objects through dimensions it would make sense for it to be able to do the same thing for time.  Now, let's just assume that either in El-Hazard or the Alternative World Arjah is sealed within the Eye of God sometime between 100 and 3000.  In 3000 he attempts to free himself on the Alternative World, a process that we are told will devastate the world.  In 100 the Alternative World was devastated.  Arjah, after failing in 3000 might've licked his wounds, waited for another opportunity, and tried again...possibly in the past.  There is no evidence to show that Arjah is limited to acting in the present.  So in 100 Arjah could've tried to escape and succeeded, thus causing the destructive Eye of God activation and explosion.

Which I feel means you need to think a little more about it

I think I've succeeded in the regard, Rob.    I just wish that I had more concrete facts to go by.  Pretty much everything I just suggested is merely educated speculation.

[larewen_evenstar]

I saw the first two episodes of EH2 Today, cause i just bought it on video, and it was great!!! i really enjoyed it. I kinda like Kalia, and i like her name too. I also like the name Alielle. (i think thats the right spelling) But i was surprised to find that there were so many lesbians in it. i think they might have over dine it a bit on that point, but i t was still great!

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

I think I've succeeded in the regard, Rob.    I just wish that I had more concrete facts to go by.  Pretty much everything I just suggested is merely educated speculation

Sorry, you just sounded like you were asking questions, but no answers.

Anyway, what you say is a pretty good idea to some degree, although I really don't believe that there is TWO Eye of God's at all.  Even Makoto finally states towards the end that it is THE Eye of God that was transported with everyone else.  (Which took him long enough to figure out.)

Termite (White) Bugrom...

My suspect is actually keeping everything in a linear timeline, so my statement is EVOLUTION, as opposed to manipulation of the bugs themselves.  These are the primitive forms of what would later become the Bugrom that everyone else knows of.  Of course, since they only seem to exist in this Alternative World and have no bearing on El-Hazard, I don't even really know if they're incredibly worth worrying about.

[Allujah] can create elaborate mental projections or illusions on a level rivaling or surpassing that of the Phantom Tribe, appears to be able to synchronize with technology much like Makoto's ability, can possess and possibly hypnotize people,

A different way to look at this is that Allujah IS ancient technology.  We know Makoto sees things when he interfaces with minds that relate to ancient technology, such as Ifurita's.  If Allujah is what I say he is, then he effectively encompasses a "mind" (sentinent OS UI).  So basically, he connects with Allujah's "mind", and Allujah, like Ifurita, can share memory images and also project them.

Possession and hypnotization ... well, randomly I can throw off something about synchronizing brain waves and controlling a mind remotely.

Its main purpose is to provide an origin for Qawool, but it also reveals aspects of a possible future.

I don't really believe there IS much of a "future"; we're looking at Makoto and co. being there for maybe 5 years max.  (He gets back to Ifurita looking about 20 something, not THAT much older.)  Qawool's story is something I fabricate probably different then most, at least in my current working version.

This theory gained additional plausibility in my mind when I spotted the similarities between Arjah and Jinnai's personalities, and I wouldn't put technology past Jinnai.  He is Shinonome's second best student and has access to at least two partially intact ancient ruins and a large component of the Trigger of Destruction.

"and a large component of the Trigger of Destruction"?  All he did was pick up scrap metal, likely what was welded into walls to build his new hive.  Concidering his demonstration on the understanding of technology ...("Maybe something technical... *KNOCK KNOCK* Hey, you in there!  Come out!") ... I don't have a whole lot of faith in him.  He'd sooner run for president then build a robot.

But i was surprised to find that there were so many lesbians in it.

There's only two of 'em.

[larewen_evenstar]

So! I just kinda noticed when i was watching it, that the box cover said it was a PG, and my mum said i shouldn't be watching that kinda stuff, but i dont care. EH is great!!

[rowan_a._seven]

Anyway, what you say is a pretty good idea to some degree, although I really don't believe that there is TWO Eye of God's at all.  Even Makoto finally states towards the end that it is THE Eye of God that was transported with everyone else.  (Which took him long enough to figure out.)

Actually, wasn't Jinnai the one who figured that out?

Makoto:  Lalalala, here I am in Cretoria investigating a beam of light and making Gilda suspicious.  

1 week later...

Makoto:  Lalala, I'm still here in Cretoria investigating a beam of light except now Gilda is actively against me.  Oh dear.

Jinnai shows up.

Jinnai:  Makoto, this is all your fault!  Say, isn't that part of the Eye of God behind you?  

Makoto:  Gee, you could be right about that.  How could I have missed that?

And so on.

As for Makoto stating that it was the same Eye of God, I'm willing to believe that he was mistaken.  After all, the AW Eye seems to have been there for quite some time, and I doubt that Makoto has the expertise to discern between the El-Hazard Eye of God and an exact duplicate.

A different way to look at this is that Allujah IS ancient technology.  

Possible and arguably probable, but my main point is that we don't know what he is.  Arjah/Allujah's origins are left as a mystery.

I don't really believe there IS much of a "future"; we're looking at Makoto and co. being there for maybe 5 years max.  

Who ever said they'd ever permanently return to Earth, though?  Sure, Makoto does find a way to return home, and the ending to the first OAV series shows clips of various El-Hazard cast members in Japan, but the Shinonome group seems to have settled down rather nicely on El-Hazard.  They might visit Earth to let their families know that they're all right and see the sites, but El-Hazard could be considered their home now.

"and a large component of the Trigger of Destruction"?  All he did was pick up scrap metal, likely what was welded into walls to build his new hive.  

Well, it was a pretty big chunk of scrap metal.  

Concidering his demonstration on the understanding of technology ...("Maybe something technical... *KNOCK KNOCK* Hey, you in there!  Come out!") ...

That approach worked, didn't it?  At any rate, his knowledge of the Eye of God has improved considerably to the point where he appears to able to recognize components of it even faster than Makoto, and he knows enough about ancient technology to figure out successful ways to unseal it, though admittedly it doesn't seem to be very hard.  Just kidnap a priestesss and a hostage and threaten to harm the hostage if the priestess doesn't unseal it.

I don't have a whole lot of faith in him.  He'd sooner run for president then build a robot.

Currently, yes.  However, I'm thinking about the future.  Jinnai knows just how powerful ancient technology can be and will probably, at the very least, attempt to locate a counter.  I don't see him building a robot either, but I can picture him discovering an ancient lab, finding robotic parts, and putting together a robot provided he also finds some sort of instruction manual.

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

Okay, granted I was using Allujah as something that existed well before.  Meaning he was always there, even back in OAV and such, just not present, since he was core operation, not a topic of the old days.

Also, Jinnai just really seems like the type that likes to work with what he has, strategically plan attacks with his big "tank" Bugroms.  I guess I really can't feel this motive for him to become techno-literate.  

The only thing I've really seem him gain from the techonology is that every sealed body he finds is a war machine, and will listen to his command after he powers them up by sticking a staff of some type up their rears.

[jewel_of_roshtaria]

Actually, wasn't Jinnai the one who figured that out?

Makoto:  Lalalala, here I am in Cretoria investigating a beam of light and making Gilda suspicious.  

1 week later...

Makoto:  Lalala, I'm still here in Cretoria investigating a beam of light except now Gilda is actively against me.  Oh dear.

Jinnai shows up.

Jinnai:  Makoto, this is all your fault!  Say, isn't that part of the Eye of God behind you?  

Makoto:  Gee, you could be right about that.  How could I have missed that?

And so on.

*Dies Laughing*

Well, it seems Jinnai has always been the brains of the bunch to me... But maybe that's just me. One thing that does irk me about AW is theat in episode 13, the animation quality really does slack off considerably (and that's saying something, I believe that due to lack of budget, AW has the worst animation of all) (They probably spent it all on the opening and designing Qawool's hair! 0_o;;; ) Then again, I can't say I hated it. (I've never met an El-Hazard I didn't like) Qawool's hair IS nice *though in no way realistic, unless that teeny little gold tiara she wears is Inter-Dimensional* And the plot IS interesting, though towards the end it gets a little rushed, in my opinion.

You two have some really good ideas on this *better than mine*, so I'll just sit back and absorb information.  

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

I've actually already spoken more then I ever meant to publically; my brainchild is running loose. ;p