El-Hazard Online
General => El-Hazard Online => Topic started by: Neil Lafrenais on October 16, 2002, 11:47:16 am
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Ms. Campbel asked for, and I'm obliged to give it to her.
Which do you think is better? Do you feel dizzy everytime Ryutaro Okiayu (the Japanese Jinnai voice) finishes a sentence? Or do you prefer the pyschotic laughter of Bob Marx (the English Jinnai voice)? Tell us. I'm genuinely interested (especially if you prefer the subtitled version ;D).
For me, and I'm sure for Rob as well, it's the dubbed version all the way. It stays faithful to Tsukimura's (screenplay writer) original script, but also adds screamingly funny additions. Notable to these are Fujisawa's infamous line, "Shit! Someone else is out of alcohol!" and Alielle's many hidden lesbian jokes, such as:
[After Fatora has blown up the engine to the hoverboat]
Makoto: "Alielle, can't you keep her steady?!"
Alielle: [struggling with the controls] If Fatora didn't fool around so much, I'd BE her steady!
Obviously, the sub is acceptable. But, it just seems so "dull" and straight to the point. I don't know. Perhaps the El-Hazard dub plays more on a more Western sense of humour.
It's not only the writing that makes me prefer the dub over the sub, it's also the acting! Oh, the voice actors in El-Hazard are absolutely flawless! Each characters sounds more or less (or even better) than their Japanese counterpart. Recommended characters for the dub are Jinnai and Fujisawa. Not only do they get some killer lines, but Marx and Mike Sorich (Fujisawa's English Voice) do a great job of delivering the lines as well.
What does everyone else think?
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I have a nifty insta-page I made for the MC a while back... no one cared for it particularly, but the uses keep coming up :P
http://www.el-hazardonline.net/stuff/Jinnai/1/index.html
It displays a screenshot that includes the English Japanese subtitle, and below it is a link to an MP3 recording of the audio played in place of the subtitled line. (EMBED's available, if your browser supports them, for convience)
There is a clean example of precise translation (the spoken line matched the subtitle exact), and example where the Japanese was modified for a more interesting line (more entertaining / less dull), and then finally an example of an English one-liner that just kicks the incredibly ... literal and expectable Japanese line out the window.
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Personally, I prefer the Dub, I think it's great. Unlike most animés, El-Hazard was dubbed properly, and thus, the outcome was a surperior show, in english and even funnier than it originally was.
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The Dub of El-Hazard seems nice, from what I saw of it... dunno about the sub, but from what you said, it's nice compared to some of the "horribile" dubs that try to force jokes into animes or scenes that should be more serious, or outright alter the whole plotline using the dialouge.
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There is virtual equivalence right down to even the tones that characters are speaking in.
Here's a little example I made overlaying Jinnai in both worlds.
http://www.el-hazardonline.net/El-Hazard/temp/rob/dual.mp3
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LOL, sounds like the evil twins talking. :o (Could you image a world that got 2 of them in it? )
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Jinnai times 2 (http://www.el-hazardonline.net/El-Hazard/temp/rob/jinnaix2.jpg)
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the dub was amazing compared to some of the dubs I've seen, *cough* tenchi muyo *cough*, but in the case of El Hazard, the dubs were done well, and the subs where horrible in comparison. i guess thats why Im a bit obsesed over the series
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I dunno. The dub of Tenchi wasn't too bad. I could definately name worse. But yes, in comparison to El-Hazard, it lacks quite a bit.
Though, I found Kagato's English VA to be fantastic.
By the way, welcome to the forum, "rogewolf". I'm Neil, the co-webmaster who doesn't do much.
Unrealted: Just another quick ushering for people to not be shy and start up new conversations and everything. ;) We would like a bit of public feedback as we are nearing 4000 visits (since June).
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Yes, and I am hear to leech of his comment and agree with him. ;p
Definately don't be shy around here... me and Neil are available for discussion for anything ranging from fact to hardcore [El-Hazard] fanfiction or fan-based ideas. (I know I've got quite a few in my own book...)
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Also here to add up the post count... how about adding a "Quick Reply" button like the SFGHQ forum ( http://sfghq.emulationzone.org/phpbb ) has? That would encourage me to write before I think. :P
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I probably COULD do that ... hmm ... Kiddo writing before he can think ... do we really want this...? ;)
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kiddo wrighting befor he thinks, why am i suddenly jittery and nervous? oh wait, thats the 3 pots of coffee and 48 hours working on homework so i dont flunk english again (my teacher hate my class, we're the only class that got homework)
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I prefer subs 100% over dubs. But I've seen all of the El Hazard anime dubbed at one point or another. While yes, the dub is alot better than most (especially for Pioneer USA -_-; ) I still prefer the subtitled version. And, while I'd like to avoid resurrecting the overdone dub vs sub argument, I'd like to say that the reason I prefer subs is that I find anime much more interesting when viewed in it's original language. I feel this way about all foreign film, as a matter of fact. And plus, I just find Japanese so interesting in general! And while I'm not fluent by any means, years of watching subtitled anime has given me at least a minimal understanding of Japanese language! ^_^
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While I respect that opinion, I'm going to say two things --
1) Those of us not really familiar with Japanese culture and better set in their own (like me), will lose humor or add it inappropriately to things that would effect those with understanding better.
2) It allows for Americanized/English-base humor (which El-Hazard has a LOT of, even where originally it was actually a boring Japanese line), so, in conjunction with #1, it's overall more entertaining.
Good example, Fujisawa running after Jinnai saying "Your teacher is sad!" as opposed to "Field trips can be dangerous!"
"Your teacher is sad?" I can guess this would be a great dishonor or something in Japanese culture, but to me it's a third person statement that seems irrelevant to the moment and sounds silly.
Granted this is a partial excuse for ignorance, but it also helps one stay more "in" to it if you make allowances for their own culture.
"Field trips can be dangerous!" just shows the ludicrous amount of teacher-brain that exists and makes you chuckle at how his entire outlook is obviously mapped to that of a teacher. It's just more powerful that way.
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The Japanese language and culture in anime is one of the things that originally impressed me so much about it. I guess it's that "foreign" feeling that makes it so unique and interesting.
One funny thing to do though, if you have the DVDs, is to run the dub track and the subtitles at the same time as a comparision. especially that one memorable scene "I refuse to let Makoto hang around with a dyke!" ^^;;;;
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Of course, I've done it. It only proved to me that the dub was right on for anything plot-ifically important, and then off to spruce up stuff that just doesn't work as well in English. :P
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I prefer subtitled animes.
1) This allows you to absorb the Japanese, with an English translation: very good, if you're trying to learn Japanese.
2) Subs are the most acurate translation available.
3) In my opinion, if not done with superb care, dubs look really fake, and distract me from the anime!
4) Because of the movement of their mouths, it is very hard to match up the dubbing... and then it looks awful, and distracts me from the anime.
5) When you read the subtitles, if you are deeply absorbed in the anime, it sounds just as if they were saying it... And you wonder why you can hear their voice, saying the English. (I know.... Hand Made May strikes again!)
That's just my two cents though....
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I prefer dubs, except for when they did strange dawn, becaus ethat was just weird, strange dawn is a great anime and everything, but when they dubbed it into english, they made a complete mess of it. I find that the original animes are sometimes too meaningful and less funny when you hear the original, cause I prefer funny. It's like, the original version of Pokemon was screened for the first time in japan and most of the kids who watched it got sent to hospital because it was so violent.
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4) Because of the movement of their mouths, it is very hard to match up the dubbing... and then it looks awful, and distracts me from the anime.
You know, that's one of the things that made it hard for me to watch Blood The Last Vampire. When they spoke english, it just looked to awkward.
It's like, the original version of Pokemon was screened for the first time in japan and most of the kids who watched it got sent to hospital because it was so violent.
^^;;;;;; Actually, that was because a scene that had some really bright flashes caused Epileptic-like seizures. And in Japan, many houses are small so they sit right up in front of the TV.
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DVD's really are the best thing for this scenario. Most of them these days come with English Dub AND Sub, and most Pioneer discs can have both running at the same time for active comparison of translation / dub team work.
I won't guarentee ALL animes are done well (I've seen quite a few that outright suck), but some really are, and just having your local language as the spoken one can often help humor aspects. One of the great risks of running pure subtitled is that a colloquial Japanese joke or pun will probably make absolutely no sense to you, unless you're incredibly familiar with Japanese culture. But, if there's a good dub team backing it up, they'll find a clever / witty way to handle it with an equally appropriate joke. Or bypass it completely, if circumstances warrant it.
Mouth sync is a problem, but except for one tiny segment in a late El-Hazard OAV segment (The infamous "Poor girl" scene), it's overall done very well, at least as well as is humanly possible. They took great care to match long speaking audio to long mouth openings and everything. And with clever English humor added as necessary, the English dub of El-Hazard is infinitely funnier and amusing then watching it in subtitles. They also picked EXCELLENT voice actors that are near perfect matches to the Japanese originals.
Here's a weird little MP3 I had laying around overlaying Jinnai from both worlds:
http://www.el-hazardonline.net/El-Hazard/temp/rob/dual.mp3
And here's another one, that fairly depicts how Bob Marx even imitates Jinnai's voice dynamics for a very good equivalent:
http://www.el-hazardonline.net/El-Hazard/temp/rob/jinnaiej.mp3
In the very first post of this thread, Neil has some good addition dub "special" notes...
For me, and I'm sure for Rob as well, it's the dubbed version all the way. It stays faithful to Tsukimura's (screenplay writer) original script, but also adds screamingly funny additions. Notable to these are Fujisawa's infamous line, "Shit! Someone else is out of alcohol!" and Alielle's many hidden lesbian jokes...
Dubs are a hit or miss situation, but El-Hazard dub is just excellent, and I recommend it and stand behind it 100%.
However, to get the best of both worlds, buy the DVDs. Then you can get the excellent English dub, but also retain the ability to backtrack to Japanese / Subtitles as you desire.
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I won't guarentee ALL animes are done well (I've seen quite a few that outright suck), but some really are, and just having your local language as the spoken one can often help humor aspects. One of the great risks of running pure subtitled is that a colloquial Japanese joke or pun will probably make absolutely no sense to you, unless you're incredibly familiar with Japanese culture. But, if there's a good dub team backing it up, they'll find a clever / witty way to handle it with an equally appropriate joke. Or bypass it completely, if circumstances warrant it.
This is one of the main reasons for people watching dubs, yes. But with even a good amount of subtitle watching and just a little reading up on Japanese culture/history (AnimEigo is really good about liner notes and stuff) anybody can learn to pick these up. It's not hard to learn. If I can do it, anybody can! After awhile, you can even follow a joke that the translator failed to pull off in subtitle, or was just too lazy to work with.
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It's not hard to learn. If I can do it, anybody can! After awhile, you can even follow a joke that the translator failed to pull off in subtitle, or was just too lazy to work with.
It's not about wether you can or not, because anybody can if they wanted to, it's partially if you have an interest to. And to put it bluntly, I don't. I see these things as an interesting curiosity, but it's not exactly in my current interest to really store any major information on any of it. I can barely remember what happened 2 days ago, much less a secondary culture which, at the moment, has no incredible bearing on my life.
The dubbers are being conciderate especially for people who are very UNfamiliar with the culture. It'd be rough for an "anime newbie" to just be thrown in to a ream of Japanese jokes and humor, it'd almost certainly guarentee they'd never buy it again because they won't find entertainment in it.
Which, by the way, is what we're arguing here. If you want to learn Japanese language / culture, by all means, watch and listen to Japanese. But if you're here strictly for the entertainment issue... I speak English, I enjoy English. Japanese only causes me issues. :p
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I still prefer Dub. I don't care what everyone else is saying. I'm just not the kinda person who can actually be bothered trying to read subtitles and watch the anime at the same time. I'm also not that kind of person that can be bothered learning a few words of a different anime just so that thay can watch it in Japanese! ARRRGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!! Why isn't anybody agreeing with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????
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Actually, I AM agreeing with you, in the concept of preferring dubs, at least by default. I mean, some ARE done bad, and those are definately the exception generally. :p
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I mean, some ARE done bad, and those are definately the exception generally. :p
Like Strange Dawn? It was done really badly. eg.
*mouth begins to move* it's stupid! stupid! stupid! stupid! *mouth continues to move*
It's just like that.
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You agree with Lar?! :o
No, seriously, I hate dubs! It's not hard to learn a little about culture in Japan, I can remember enough to help me get through! And I can't even remember what happened this morning!
Eg:
Ramen: A noodle dish, with loads of different things that can be put into it, like eggs.
Sake: Rice wine.
Baka: Word for "Idiot" in Japanse.
See!
And dubbing just seems so lazy for the veiwer! And when you get into reading the subs, it's so easy to follow!
Saucer, it seems we are out numbered. We should do some sort of protest, like type only in Japanese and put subs at the bottom! ::) ;D ;) :P
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Actually, I know most of the previous things and you have told me several times that your brother told you what most of them mean. Sothere. And don'y argue with me. I have already fallen out with you once today, and i'm not planning on doing it again.
And no protesting. It would tke you about an hour to find all the words you wanted to type on the net and then half an hour to write them and the subs.
GO DUBS!!!!!!!!!!! EVERYONE LOVES ME AND NOT EL!!!!!!!!! HA!!!!!!!!!
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Uh Lar... Shut up before Carpet Yeti is forced to kill you! ::) ;) :P ;D 8) :-*
And I wouldn't have to look it all up on the net!
You forget, I have to resources of:
Giant Robot!
Sub Anime!
Music Videos!
My "How to learn how to speak Japanese" book!
And other stuff!
Lar no hentai baka!
Note to self: Look up particles and see who can make sense of this!
Subs are really easy to understand! I mean, you just have to read!
And, you begin to absorb Japanese, and before you know it, you can say "I feel sick" in Japanese!
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Depressing : Pokemon in English
Passable : AW in English
Exceptional : Dual! in English
The Good : Vandread's re-hash of "What a wonderful World"
The Bad : Robotech (English) : Minmei's "Stagefright" single
The Horrifying : Nadesico (Subtitled): Yurika's Speech in Engrish
No Way : Ranma 1/2 in Mandarin Chinese
Baka: Word for "Idiot" in Japanse.
ah. my favorite word. heard in almost every anime except pokemon. thanks for the publicity too. ;)
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Lar no hentai baka!
isn't that: Lar your a hentai idiot? or something similar?
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Yeah, pretty much.
But why are dubs better Lar?
I like subs... And I was brought up in a household where dubs are a sin and shall be burned.
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shizumaru, minna-san!.
elyrka-san, Lar natokakanai muchi desu.
Lar, you are entitled to your opinion.
Me, I like mine with their original seiyuus.
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Yes, i am entitled to opinion. I not quite sure wh ois winning this arguement any more.
Dubs are best.
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Dubs are best
I guess you mean Dubbed in english, dude.
How would you feel if you got a copy of a series dubbed in french?
***shudders remembering the Evangelion eps I leeched last december*** >:(
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Yeah, dubbed into english. Hey does anyone know where i can buy a region 2 English version of The secret of Blue water?
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try ordering through animenation.com.
Oh, i was able to download the first 6 episodes of that series last month... dubbed... IN SPANISH.
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Yeah, i feel really bad about the spanish thing. See a while back it was only avalible in Italian, Spanish and Japanese. No English Subs even!!
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BTW, i first saw Blue Water dubbed in my national language, about 7 years ago. Its title, when translated, was "the Magical Necklace". Belch. Now i know dub artists of my country stink. After then, i never watched Locally dubbed anime ever again.
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The Horrifying : Nadesico (Subtitled): Yurika's Speech in Engrish
LOL! Nadesico is a great source of Engrish!
isn't that: Lar your a hentai idiot? or something similar?
^^; "Lar no hentai baka" basically means "Lar you perverted idiot"
Yes, i am entitled to opinion. I not quite sure wh ois winning this arguement any more.
Dubs are best.
Actually, it's not really about which is best. It's which is best for you. Sub people and dub people always try to explain passionately why they like the format they do. But it always ends up as an argument. The important part is that anime released outside of Japan is often subtitled and or dubbed in at least one, often several languages. So there's a format for everyone! Since DVDs allow for several different formats on one release, dub/sub preference is almost an irrelevant arguement now. Although peope still pursue it for various reasons. ^^;;;
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Lets stop this argument by saying the following: Thank God they came up with DVD's and they are one of the best things you can own. Apart from, in my case, Orlando Bloom.
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Please note that this thread isn't really Sub vs. Dub ANIMÉ, but Sub vs. Dub *EL-HAZARD*. And we all know which one wins on that. ;) *points to the dub* Oh, come on. You know it does.
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Oh come on! You know it does.
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Oh all right, have your own opinion. ;)
Anyway, yeah, back on topic plzzzzzz.
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The other Administrator has spoken!
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I watch sub much more often than dub, in general. I'm a beginning Japanese language student. Might go for JLPT 4 this year...
However, I usually watch my two favorite titles (EH OVA1 and Oh My Goddess! OVA) in English. Go figure.
The OMG! dub is the only one that I like better than the original Japanese. The brilliant voice actors, the little tweaks to match the lip flaps, the handling of bits of Japanese culture that Joe Sixpack wouldn't understand-- they caught lightning in a bottle there.
As far as El-Hazard-- OVA1 is a draw. Some of the new jokes are brilliant, but some of them make me cringe. For example, Jinnai's "time to energize my bunny demon" (I *hate* that line!!) and Fujisawa's "open bar", at the end of his dungeon scene, when he's obviously becoming physically sick at the idea of marriage.
And the English voice actors? Most of them are perfect matches, and many of them surpass the Japanese VAs in places. But-- Makoto's English VA doesn't work for me. Either he was miscast, or he wasn't directed properly, or he misplayed the part, but he somehow makes Makoto sound much more uncertain of himself, even stupid in places, than the Japanese VA, to my ears.
OVA2 and Alt World-- sub is better than dub. Fatora gets a few good lines in OVA2, but the rest is kinda bleah for me.
Wanderers-- Probably also a draw. But I like Makoto's English VA much better in the Wanderers. Again, go figure.
EA
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But-- Makoto's English VA doesn't work for me. Either he was miscast, or he wasn't directed properly, or he misplayed the part, but he somehow makes Makoto sound much more uncertain of himself, even stupid in places, than the Japanese VA, to my ears.
I noticed that also. Ironically, he also did Yakumo in Streamline's dub of 3x3 Eyes. ^^;
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But in OAV1, Makoto's supposed to be uncertain of himself. That's his character, isn't it? Neil has a nice bit about how Makoto starts as this akward teenager who's worried and defensive about his own sexuality, among other things, and finally only in the end realizes a true inner strength.
Anything other than OAV1 (OAV2, AW, Wanderers) is supposed to be taken with a grain of salt... don't try to find equivalent value in any of them, you will fail.
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Mon the dub lovers!!!!!!!
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Hmmm.... well I wouldn't say he's so unsure of himself. Maybe a bit "off" because he's suddenly lumped into another world. "Fish out of water" scenario (Fujisawa is too hung over to be affected, it would appear). If anything, he certainly gets on the ball fast. By the second episode (if I'm remembering right) he's already working out a plan to get back to earth.
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The brain works, doesn't mean "little Makoto" knows where to go ;p
Sexuality is like half your humanity. And 17 is one of those fun awkward years alright...
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Okay, so now i'm confused.
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A little forum advice: Instead of just saying you're confused, try asking about the particular part that's confusing you for additional explanation.
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The brain works, doesn't mean "little Makoto" knows where to go ;p
Sexuality is like half your humanity. And 17 is one of those fun awkward years alright...
Looks like we're talking about two entirely different things here. ^^;;;;;;
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First off, I watch most Anime subbed but do, on occasion, enjoy some dubs out there.
OVA - I was very impressed over how great the dub/acting was.
The "Western" sense of humour really brought out the series to a whole new level compared to the sub.
Wanderers - About half way through the set, I couldn't stand the dub/acting anymore; what the hell was Pioneer thinking. It doesn't even compare to the perfection they did on the OVA. Plus, I had never realized how much I hated Makoto's dub voice. And whats up w/ Alliele's dub character ???. If you compare the dub w/ the sub then you'll know what I mean. I had to rewatch the entire series from the beginning w/ original Japanese subtitles. Much, much more enjoyable by far ;D. Thank god I did considering how it ended.
Alt. World - I have yet to see. Starting tomorrow ;D.
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We all know Wanderers was just a slap-stick version of El-Hazard to begin with. What exactly about "how it ends" bothered you?
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Will this arguemnt ever end?
Mon the dub lovers!!!!
That just didn't help, did it?
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Will this arguemnt ever end?
Mon the dub lovers!!!!
That just didn't help, did it?
No, I won't my dear.
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Unless I lock it. And I think I will. There's enough of this. :P