El-Hazard Online
General => El-Hazard Online => Topic started by: Lord God Jinnai on August 21, 2003, 02:22:43 am
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All right, you get to decide. Who, out of all the dumb girls in his harem, deserves Makoto the most?
Will it be that mechanical wind-up wench Ifurita I from the OAVs?
How about fanservice Rune Venus from the TV series?
Or maybe that violent fire hag, Shayla Shayla?
Might my poor, deluded little sister Nanami get Mizuhara?
Or maybe someone else all together?
Frankly, if it were up to me, I'd pair the doofus up with a rabid pitbull. Oooh... what fun imagery I take to my dreams tonight, heh heh heh.
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Oooh... what fun imagery I take to my dreams tonight, heh heh heh.
And if I'm seeing it right, what fun imagery Fatora takes to her dreams in the new doujinshi I just got; Nanami decides Fatora's not good enough and goes to big brother. Oh my. *decked*
Anywho... personally, I'd make a version for Makoto to end up with Ifurita, Shayla, OR Nanami. Not Quawool, who you didn't mention, because frankly I believe in something else going on there, not outright attraction, even if that's how Nanami and Shayla see it. TV Rune... well, in Wanderers 'verse, I don't get the same vibe ride from those characters, so I'll just let the Makoto+Rune thing be. :P (Plus, for messing in the Wanderers 'verse relationship, you sort of can do that with EHPC.)
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Who "deserves" him... I've never really liked that turn of phrase. I don't think that love is supposed to be something that can be "earned", so to speak. If a guy's been wooing a girl for twenty years, and she turns around and falls for a guy that she's just met, is the new guy somehow less "deserving" of her love than the old guy, simply because the old guy has put more effort into it? Who's to say that the girl and the old guy was a romance that just wasn't going to click, no matter how determined he was?
Similarly, does hardship make someone more "deserving" of love? If two girls pursue one guy, the first having been raised her whole life in the lap of luxury, and the second having to scrape for every scrap of food and dignity from the day she was born, should the guy go to the poor girl just because she's had a rough life? Doesn't the rich girl deserve love, too?
And how about character? Are there personality traits that are somehow make an individual less deserving of love? If someone is timid and insecure about his feelings, does his "underdog" status make him any more deserving of the girl than his bold, self-confident rival?
I don't believe so. And, in the end, I think that Ifurita and Makoto deserve each other because, of all the ladies vying for his attention, SHE'S the one he decided to love back. Nothing else really matters.
But if we want to put up a scorechart, let's do so:
Ifurita
Determination: 3 out of 10
Ifurita was never really fervently pursued Makoto. In fact, she tried to kill him on several occasions. It was mostly Makoto's attempts to win her over that finally got through to her.
Angst: 10 out of 10
Ifurita's life really, really sucked. She's been a murder machine and a slave presumably since the day she was created, and apparently possessed enough free will to abhor her lot in life enough to wish for death. None of Makoto's other hunnies come close to Ifurita's angst factor.
Character: 6 out of 10
Ifurita's character is pretty hard to read, since it's tied up pretty thoroughly with her angst. She's a fatalist, at least at first, but has good reason to be. It becomes clear that she has a good heart, at least, since she does not want to do the evil things that she's made to do, and tries to resist in the end. Once real hope is introduced to the equasion, she becomes a very happy and fulfilled individual.
Overall: 6 out of 10
If you ignore the fact that Makoto eventually fell for her, Ifurita's high angst factor makes her a strong contender in the Makoto sweepstakes. However, her low determination indicates that just about anyone nice would do; there's no reason it has to be Makoto.
TV Rune Venus
Determination: 7 out of 10
Rune fell for Makoto pretty gradually, but the more she fell, the harder she fought for him, in her own way. Being very polite and well-mannered, she tended to keep her raging hormones in check most of the time, but on occasion she would lose control, such as the instance when she declared Ifurita to be public enemy number one for fear that Makoto was falling for her, and the instance when she broke down in tears because Nanami knew Makoto so much better than she did. A passive person, Rune was at her least passive when it came to Makoto.
Angst: 8 out of 10
Poor Rune - the epitome of the "poor little rich girl" stereotype. An orphaned princess, she was raised in the lap of luxury, but friendless and alone, with nothing but her hand puppet to keep her company. The patheticness of that alone gives her a pretty high angst rating. The fact that she IS rich, and has plenty of palace adults who care about her knocks a couple points off the scale.
Character: 9 out of 10
Let's face it: Rune's pretty much as nice a person as it's possible to be. If anyone's deserving of happiness for being nice, it's her. She's kinda wishy-washy, which stops her from rating a perfect 10, but all-in-all she's got very good character.
Overall: 8 out of 10
Rune's a shoe-in for the coveted position of Makoto's love bunny. With high scores in both angst and character, and a moderate score in determination, she's a tough one to beat.
Shayla-Shayla
Determination: 8 out of 10
Shayla's insecure about her feelings for Makoto, but that doesn't stop her from doing just about everything she can to stop some OTHER hussy from moving in on him before she has the chance to sort out her feelings. Her main rival is Nanami, and Nanami bears the brunt of Shayla's offense. Fortunately, Nanami is a tough girl herself, and can deal with it.
Angst: 3 out of 10
OAV Shayla doesn't have any visible angst to speak of, but if we take her past as explained in the Wanderers as canon, we know that she was a poor, underprivileged child who had to scrape for every penny. She sure didn't seem to let it get her down, though...
Character: 4 out of 10
Shayla has as many good points to her character as bad. She ultimately wants to do the right thing, but has a very short fuse, and is very prone to jumping to the wrong conclusions. She's quick to judge, and slow to forgive. While not stupid, persay, she's a lot more likely to think with her heart than with her head, and that can get her into trouble. About the only thing she's not forceful with is her feelings for Makoto. When THAT comes up, she becomes a stuttering, blushing heap of mush - which is cute and endearing, but not a very strong indication of character.
Overall: 5 out of 10
Shayla's scores are pretty low, other than her determination. It's obvious that she wants Makoto, but she's not particularly deserving of him.
Nanami
Determination: 8 out of 10
Nanami is just as determined to win Makoto as Shayla is, and just as quick to hide her feelings about it. The feeling I get while watching her is that she pretty much has expected her whole life to just end up with Makoto, and that there was no hurry in claiming him. Now that there's all this competition, though, she's having to take a more active role. While not usually as physically aggressive as Shayla, she's not afraid to put up her dukes. She's much more likely to use her long friendship with Makoto to try to prove her worthiness against the competition.
Angst: 3 out of 10
Nanami is pretty much angst free, except when it comes to losing Makoto (which doesn't count for this rating). She did have a bit of trouble on first coming to El-Hazard. And I gave her an extra point just for being Jinnai's sister. That has to count for SOMETHING angst-wise. ;D
Character: 6 out of 10
Nanami is a nice, friendly person, but she has a deep selfish and acquisitive streak. Her desire for Makoto probably stems more from a desire to make herself happy than to make them both happy. That said, she's strong-willed, friendly, and always willing to help out.
Overall: 6 out of 10
Nanami's scores weren't bad, but her utter lack of angst makes it difficult to recommend her.
Qawool
Determination: 5 out of 10
At first glance, it might appear that Qawool deserves a very low score here. She never actually DOES anything to win Makoto, right? Actually, while she doesn't catfight with the other contenders, she does (seemingly unintentionally) try to win Makoto in a much more passive way. She hangs around with him, and takes interest in the things that interest him. She touches him on many occasions - a subtle way of inidcating affection, and one that seems to actually make an impact on him. In fact, only the fact that her love is completely and utterly selfless prevents her from achieving a very high score.
Angst: 2 out of 10
Happy and oblivious, there doesn't seem to be much bothering Qawool. Her bug phobia and her shadowy, mysterious past give her something to worry about from time to time, but that's about it.
Character: 8 out of 10
If anyone can beat TV Rune in terms of niceness, it's Qawool. She lives COMPLETELY for everyone other than herself. If Qawool has any personal wants or desires, they're hard to see. Everything she does, she does to make other people happy. Even when it comes to Makoto, it's clear that she'll be as happy as a clam no matter who he ends up with, so long as he's happy. Heck, if she won him herself, she'd proably be happy to share him around, just to make everyone else happy, too. So, a perfect 10, right? No, Qawool's got a darker side to her personality, too. She has little to no self-confidence, and is generally wishy-washy and helpless in any crisis. These are not particularly desireable personality traits.
Overall: 5 out of 10
Qawool's low angst and moderate determination make her a poor contender. Particularly since she'd probably be just as happy as a loser as she would as a winner.
TV Ifurita
Determination: 2 out of 10
Other than a sort of wistful desire for her "almost Master", Ifurita doesn't seem to be putting up much of an effort to be with Makoto. She gives no real indication that she's interested in him romantically at all (at least, outside of TV Rune's jealous imagination).
Angst: 7 out of 10
While Ifurita is a cheerful and optimistic individual, the truth is that her lot in life is pretty sucky. As much as she might like to deny it, she's a weapon of fearsome destructive power, and she's the slave of a megalomaniac who verbally abuses her at length for every failure. Her naivety and generally confused attitude might not bother her, but to the viewer the poor girl deserves a lot better.
Character: 7 out of 10
Ifurita is innocent and naive, and not very clever at all. She wins a lot of points for her wholehearted devotion to her master, and for generally wanting to be friends with everyone she meets. She's the nicest doomsday weapon you'll ever meet! ;)
Overall: 5 out of 10
Frankly, Ifurita just needs someone who cares about her. Makoto isn't necessary at all. Even Jinnai would fit the bill, if he wasn't such a Crazy Wierdo Freak. ;D
Afura Mann
Determination: 2 out of 10
Afura has given no indication that she's interested in Makoto romantically. She gets a point because the TV version of her is clearly impressed by him.
Angst: 2 out of 10
Again using the Wanderers to view her past, it seems that she was a teacher's pet in her early life, and one who used her natural talents to great advantage in securing a position for herself. Such individuals usually don't have a lot of friends, and tend to lead isolated, lonely lives which is the only reason her angst rating isn't lower than it is.
Character: 4 out of 10
Afura's primary visable trait is her arrogance, mostly in the Wanderers, but to a degree also in the OAV timeline. That said, she has a lot of self-confidence - though possibly a little too much, given how headstrong she is at times. That said, she's a good person at heart, and wishes to do the right thing.
Overall: 3 out of 10
Afura is a very poor contender in the rankings, mostly because of her lack of interest in Makoto, and her general lack of development as a character in general. She's only ranked her at all because she's my favorite priestess and deserves someone to make her happy. ;D It probably won't be Makoto, though...
Queen Diva
Determination: 1 out of 10
Queen Diva has never shown even the slightest inkling of interest in Makoto. On the contrary, she probably wants him dead almost as much as Jinnai does.
Angst: 3 out of 10
Queen Diva has been trying to conquer that pesky Alliance for ages now. Before Jinnai showed up to lend a hand, she was the brightest bulb in the whole Bugrom hive, and that's not saying much. What's a poor, disadvantaged monarch to do?
Character: 3 out of 10
Queen Diva has very little will of her own. Once Jinnai shows up, she pretty much defers to him in everything. About the only thing she's ever done in defiance of Jinnai's wishes was to impliment Jinnai's suggestion for replenishing the Bugrom race.
Overall: 2 out of 10
She doesn't deserve Makoto. For that matter, she doesn't even WANT Makoto. She's only rated here as a gag. :D
Alielle
Determination: 2 out of 10
Given her sexual preferences, Alielle isn't REALLY interested in Makoto. However, he DOES look an awful lot like her beloved Fatora, and so he seems to be one male that she doen't mind glomping every now and then, even after she learns of his true identity. Still, her tastes definitely run in other directions.
Angst: 2 out of 10
Most of Alielle's angst stems from the guilt she felt over not having been there for Fatora when she was abducted by the Phantom Tribe. Now that Fatora is back, though, Alielle's about as happy and bubbly as it's possible to be.
Character: 7 out of 10
When apart from Fatora, Alielle is a very intelligent, clever, happy, and all around nice girl. She ranks right up there with TV Rune and Qawool in terms of the goodness of her heart. She loses a few points, though, for the decidedly lecherous streak she possesses, particularly when around Fatora. She's definitely not a faithful lover.
Overall: 4 out of 10
C'mon. This is Alielle. The LESBIAN Alielle. Overall score notwithstanding, there's only one woman less likely to hook up with Makoto, and she's next.
Fatora
Determination: 1 out of 10
Fatora has no interest in Makoto. Or any man, for that matter. And she's more than willing to say so. Loudly, and often. Though, if Fatora HAD to pick a man, she'd probably pick Makoto, given that she'd probably consider him the most attractive man she's ever met. ;D
Angst: 3 out of 10
Fatora really got a raw deal with the Phantom Tribe, but that may well have just been her karma giving her a swift kick in the patootie. And even when THAT little incident was done with, she was back to her sly, cunning self as though nothing had ever happened. Fatora lives almost entirely for the moment, and that doesn't leave a lot of room for angst.
Character: 1 out of 10
Fatora is not a nice person by any stretch of the term. Sneaky and cunning, but without a great deal of talent for forethought, Fatora does whatever she can to satisfy her own cravings, without regard to how she may be hurting others (or for how her plans may backfire on her later). This is not a lady you wanna bring home to meet your parents. Even if you're a girl.
Overall: 2 out of 10
No, Fatora won't be jumping Makoto's bones anytime soon. He probably thanks whatever deities are listening for this daily.
Miz Mishtal
Determination: 1 out of 10
Miz has eyes only for Mr. Fujisawa. While she bears no actual animosity for Makoto, she'd probably prefer that he was around less often, so that she could spend more time alone with Mr. Fujisawa.
Angst: 5 out of 10
Miz actually has quite a bit of angst, all of it having to do with her biological clock telling her to get her butt in gear and get herself a man already. To an outside observer, this might seem silly and a little shallow, but it's certainly very important to her.
Character: 6 out of 10
Miz is a very nice person and wishes to do the right thing, but she's practically ruled by her raging hormones. While she can still function effectively as an individual, a whole lot of her time and energy is spent trying to catch a husband, whether or not he particularly wants to be caught.
Overall: 4 out of 10
Miz is ripe for romance, but not with Makoto. Who knows - maybe if it'd been Makoto who'd "rescued" her from the bathing attendant she would have seen the charm in dating a handsome fellow only slightly more than half her age, but we'll never know now.
OAV Rune Venus
Determination: 1 out of 10
Rune Venus never shows any kind of romantic interest in Makoto. It's likely that she considers him a friend of sorts, and she is certainly grateful to him for his services toward her country, but she's not chasing him around the palace trying to get into his pants. (Which would probably be pretty amusing, actually. ;D)
Angst: 9 out of 10
Man, Rune is nearly BUILT out of angst. All she ever DOES is worry, it seems. She worries about her nation being invaded, she worries about being entrusted with the power of the Eye of God, she worries about Demon Gods being awakened, she worries about the political marriage she has to endure... All very good things to worry about, actually. On top of that, her first "love interest" turned out to be the one who had kidnapped and tortured her sister, and her second disappeared without a trace in one of the worst dangling plot threads in all of El-Hazard canon.
Character: 4 out of 10
Rune means well, but all she ever does is worry. She's ready and willing to make the tough decisions necessary for running a country, but it looks pretty clear that she's on the verge of breaking down and crying every time she does so. Yeah, her life isn't the best, but she really does need to lighten up a bit.
Overall: 5 out of 10
OAV Rune needs a hug. She really does. Makoto's probably not the best one to give it to her, though, but Rune could certainly do a whole lot worse. And has. Twice. Poor girl.
Gilda
Determination: 1 out of 10
Gilda was perfectly willing to use Makoto to her own ends. If she thought that seducing him was the best way to do this, she might well have tried it. Of course, she'd probably be just as willing to break out the toenail tongs and thumbscrews. Neither approach is particularly indicative of romantic desire. Unless you're into that kinda thing. :P
Angst: 8 out of 10
Gilda is a bitter, jilted woman, and it shows. Her heart was badly betrayed, and she became a very suspicious, untrusting individual as a result. In fact, that betrayal pretty much shaped her entire life after that point. On top of that, she has to worry about her country crumbling to ashes around her while it's emperor, her former beloved, devotes himself to wine and women - and it isn't even the country of her birth.
Character: 3 out of 10
Bitter, ruthless, and hostile, Gilda is not a very pleasant woman. While she does want to save her country, even her motivation for that stems from selfish reasons - she wants to impress the man she once loved (at least at first; later on, it seems that she's actually working to save the country to SPITE him). Needless to say, she has issues.
Overall: 4 out of 10
Gilda could probably use a little love in her life, but it's very unlikely that she would ever have considered Makoto to be a valid prospect. Anyway, like Miz, we know how she ends up, so it doesn't matter anyway.
So, there you have it! TV Rune Venus is the gal who most deserves Makoto.
And she's probably my last choice, too. :P
Hey, Xel, you should add an entry for Jinnai! I would have, but I just don't have the qualifications that you do. ;D
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*gags Spanner* Don't get her started! ;p
Actually, seriously, Spanner -- I think I want to add this as some type of literature to the site. That was too excellent for basic analysis of the situation. Although you might as well note Afura as being TV-specific, because you really referenced nothing of OAV-Afura, who's so much a nicer gal, though so much lesser a character. :P
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Ura
Determination: 10 out of 10
Come on, Makoto WEARS Ura.
Angst: 10 out of 10
Ura used to live with Fatora. That's enough for me.
Character: 10 out of 10
All right, I admit it. I don't have a justification for this one. Just bear with me, okay?
Overall: 10 out of 10
Ura is a perfect match for Makoto. You know it's true.
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Who "deserves" him... I've never really liked that turn of phrase. I don't think that love is supposed to be something that can be "earned", so to speak. If a guy's been wooing a girl for twenty years, and she turns around and falls for a guy that she's just met, is the new guy somehow less "deserving" of her love than the old guy, simply because the old guy has put more effort into it? Who's to say that the girl and the old guy was a romance that just wasn't going to click, no matter how determined he was?
Actually, when I said who "deserves" Makoto the most, I meant it in the way you would say, "Which of these girls deserve to get run over by a truck, or fellen by a mysterious back disease, or terminal blindness?"
It's a karma thing, man.
Frankly, Ifurita just needs someone who cares about her. Makoto isn't necessary at all. Even Jinnai would fit the bill, if he wasn't such a Crazy Wierdo Freak.
You bastard! You take that back!
Hey, Xel, you should add an entry for Jinnai! I would have, but I just don't have the qualifications that you do.
*kills Spanner*
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in the end, I think that Ifurita and Makoto deserve each other because, of all the ladies vying for his attention, SHE'S the one he decided to love back.
So, there you have it! TV Rune Venus is the gal who most deserves Makoto.
inconsistency?
on initial reading, I thought you'd go for tv Ifreeta
On an interesting account, if we have this board German, OAV Ifurita would still have 10 for angst (Angst = fear)....for the fear factor
Character: 6 out of 10
Ifurita is innocent and naive, and not very clever at all. She wins a lot of points for her wholehearted devotion to her master, and for generally wanting to be friends with everyone she meets. She's the nicest doomsday weapon you'll ever meet!
Is having a good heart not the most important? um....I do hope u don't judge females based on intelligence :bawl, cause females have the tendency to judge back in that category ;)...I'd go 10/10, but at least in the score board that should be 8/10, just like Quawool:
Everything she does, she does to make other people happy
Ifreeta in comparison:
...generally wanting to be friends with everyone she meets. She's the nicest...
I'd go for tv Rune as being nice, unfortunately, that possessive ambition would cut a lot of points in my score board (yeah, l-o-v-e is selfish, which is why I'm against it)
Frankly, Ifurita just needs someone who cares about her. Makoto isn't necessary at all. Even Jinnai would fit the bill, if he wasn't such a Crazy Wierdo Freak.
true, true, I'd prefer the Saturn video game ending or my fics, but Jinnai isn't bad at all ...remember the "father expression" near the end, and I do recall LGJ's showing some of that virtue in some thread.
In all fairness to the ladies in EH, I'd choose Jinn....*go silent and look the other way after noticing LGJ dragging something that resemble a human carcass*
....I mean Jinnai's sister: Nanami... ^^; yes, yes, Nanami....Jinnai's sister....Nanami and Makoto...the conventional, school-mate pairing -_-
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Might my poor, deluded little sister Nanami get Mizuhara?
It's pretty clear that Makoto and Nanami had feelings for each other before any of the other girls came into the picture, i.e., She Was There First.
Has anyone ever written a What If fanfic where the El-Hazard jump never happened? Or where it happened a few months, or a year or two, later? Assuming Makoto survived his encounters with Jinnai (in both the OVA and the TV series). What if Makoto and Nanami remained in Japan as a couple? What if they went to El-Hazard as a couple?
Ifurita
Determination: 2 out of 10
Angst: 10 out of 10
Character: 6 out of 10
OVA-Ifurita actually tried to resist Jinnai's last command, to kill Makoto, before Makoto destroyed her control circuit. I'd give her an extra point or two for that, either in determination or character, depending on how you look at it.
And you need to give OVA-Ifurita a "Spinal Tap" angst value of 11 ;)
TV Rune Venus
Determination: 6 out of 10
Angst: 8 out of 10
Character: 9 out of 10
Slightly more determination, slightly less angst.
Shayla-Shayla
Determination: 8 out of 10
Angst: 3 out of 10
Character: 4 out of 10
Slightly less determination, slightly more character.
Nanami
Determination: 8 out of 10
Angst: 2 out of 10
Character: 6 out of 10
I'd give Nanami a higher angst score, for "Why is my life hard on every world," and (briefly) crying when she finds Makoto at Arliman, and so on. She has her moments. But she does bounce back quickly. She has a lot of inner strength, or driving greed, or both.
Nanami had a really bad time in Alt World. But, from memory, almost all of it was over Makoto+Kauru. If Alt World had been better written, she might have had more profound angst, especially after her Creteria restaurant was damaged. Everyone has a breaking point, and I've wondered if she might have given in to despair, if her time in Creteria had lasted much longer.
Qawool
Determination: 5 out of 10
Angst: 2 out of 10
Character: 8 out of 10
Can't split any hairs there.
TV Ifurita
Determination: 2 out of 10
Angst: 7 out of 10
Character: 6 out of 10
Determination varies. Might have been fairly high early on, but after she saw Makoto and Rune together, it fell to virtually zero. I would agree that she has a lot more angst than you might first think.
Afura Mann
Determination: 2 out of 10
Angst: 2 out of 10
Character: 4 out of 10
Romantic determination is zero, I think. And slightly more angst for the whirlwind episode.
Queen Diva
Determination: 1 out of 10
Angst: 3 out of 10
Character: 3 out of 10
Uh, sure ^^;
So, there you have it! TV Rune Venus is the gal who most deserves Makoto.
And she's probably my last choice, too. :P
Huh. Besides a few drabbles, and a silent cameo in "Fujisawa's Wild Kingdom," I've never even written any fan fiction for her. Never realized that before.
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Hey, Xel, you should add an entry for Jinnai! I would have, but I just don't have the qualifications that you do. ;D
*giggles like a small, strange thing*
Ohohoho! Well, I'll try. And I'll do my best to be as unbiased as I can. ^^; But seriously, this is as much a gag rating as Diva is. (Though looking back, I can sense that I'm at least partly serious. -_-) Please keep that in mind, sir. Please please please.
There's a fine, fine line between love and hate...
Jinnai
Determination: 9 out of 10
While not outrightly determined to win Makoto's heart by any means, Jinnai is nonetheless nothing if not determined to get to him in a big way. The only thing separating him from a 10 out of 10 is the fact that Jinnai does have a genuine interest and desire to conquer which seems independent to anything he feels towards his "arch-nemesis".
Angst: 2 out of 10
Very, very little angst for Jinnai. When he acts, he seems almost always aware of what he's doing. Generally speaking, the only things he has to angst over are failed operations and his constant nagging hatred of Makoto (and possibly matters regarding Diva, but that seems like quite a minor thing, if he's even receptive to it at all). However, the final episodes of Wanderers demonstrate that Jinnai is both capable of feeling genuine concern for another person's well-being and probably unafraid to show it, too. Needless to say, on the surface at least, Jinnai is not a man with a lot of fear. (Read on...)
Character: 4 out of 10
Personality-wise, Jinnai and Shayla are pretty similar, as has been pointed out in the past. Objectively speaking, he really has a bit of a balance of good and bad points about him: a flare of temper for each stroke of genius, as well as the occasional (very) rare show of kindness and/or compassion to offset his usual arrogance and shrewd decisiveness. Perhaps the deciding factor of Jinnai's character that remains to (and probably never will) be seen is just what Jinnai would do if he was actually given the absolute upper-hand over Makoto. There have been hints that he would gladly kill him without a second thought, but there's still some debatable questions surrounding it: in spite of all the shining attributes that render him the ideal dictator, is there still an eighteen year old kid to be found somewhere in there? Is it possible for a young man who was raised in normal, everyday Japanese society to suddenly step up in a virtual explosion of discovered potential from scandal-steeped class president to ruler of an empire without carrying something of his former life with him? The core of many, if not most of Jinnai's motivations practically revolve around the one boy whom he considers his eternal rival and enemy-- what would he do if his raison d'etre suddenly ceased to be? Does Jinnai truly have it in him to kill Makoto?
Overall: 5 out of 10
Overall was given a 5 only because I saw it as a sort of middle ground. It can be argued that the way Jinnai feels about Makoto is nothing short of completely malicious, or that there is a sort of warped sense of love intertwined with it. Personally speaking, I'm beginning to see Jinnai's relationship with Makoto as something largely undefinable. There's ultimately something to be said for that, at least.
EDIT: ... Did I hear you say Jinnai/Nanami doujinshi, Rob? *ph33rz, but is morbidly curious*
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EDIT: ... Did I hear you say Jinnai/Nanami doujinshi, Rob? *ph33rz, but is morbidly curious*
Not entirely based on it, just a segment of. I'll try to get it scanned later... at the earliest, after work tonight. At the latest, on Sunday. Depends how I feel after work tonight or tommorow. :P
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Heh. There! I've added entries for Alielle, Fatora, Miz, OAV Rune, and Gilda to my post above, just for the heckuvit. Enjoy. ;D
*gags Spanner* Don't get her started! ;p
Actually, seriously, Spanner -- I think I want to add this as some type of literature to the site. That was too excellent for basic analysis of the situation. Although you might as well note Afura as being TV-specific, because you really referenced nothing of OAV-Afura, who's so much a nicer gal, though so much lesser a character. :P
If you'd like to add it somewhere on the site, feel free. Please add a blurb or something to make certain that people realize how very tongue-in-cheek it is supposed to be, however. ;)
I don't feel any need to make Afura's entry specifically "TV Afura". In spite of the fact that OAV Afura is nicer than TV Afura, I still don't consider them different enough to warrant specific entries.
inconsistency?
Naw - remember, early in the post, I mentioned that the "scorecharts" for the characters are meaningless to me. I was trying to point out that, if you added up the "points" that each character possessed, you'd get a different answer than you might expect (or desire). Ifurita is the gal that I think SHOULD hook up with Makoto (and did). TV Rune is the most "qualified".
on initial reading, I thought you'd go for tv Ifreeta
No, while I DO consider the idea of a TV Ifurita/Makoto pairing to be incredibly cute (I still grin like an idiot every time I see that scene from Rune's imagination, of Ifurita and Makoto gazing lovingly into each other's eyes against a bubbly shoujo background), I still consider OAV Ifurita/Makoto to be one of the best romances I've ever seen in any anime.
Is having a good heart not the most important? um....I do hope u don't judge females based on intelligence :bawl, cause females have the tendency to judge back in that category ;)...
Actually, no - in my personal opinion, a nice girl is a lot more attractive than an intelligent girl. But a nice, intelligent girl is more attractive than both. ;) Intelligence may not be the most important character trait for me, but it IS a character trait that contributes to the score. And keep in mind, none of this is meant to be taken seriously, anyway.
Romantic determination is zero, I think. And slightly more angst for the whirlwind episode.
Actually, I should have mentioned, but there IS no zero value. The scores are from one to ten. ^^; So, one indicates absolutely no romantic interest in Makoto. I'll look into a few of the value modifications that you suggested. Unless I disagree with 'em. ;D
Not entirely based on it, just a segment of. I'll try to get it scanned later... at the earliest, after work tonight. At the latest, on Sunday. Depends how I feel after work tonight or tommorow. :P
*Shudders* Can't sleep... Doujin will eat me... Can't sleep... Doujin will eat me... :-/
Actually, when I said who "deserves" Makoto the most, I meant it in the way you would say, "Which of these girls deserve to get run over by a truck, or fellen by a mysterious back disease, or terminal blindness?"
It's a karma thing, man.
*Innocently* Oh! Is THAT what you meant? Who could have guessed!
You bastard! You take that back!
HAhaHAhAHahAHAhaHAhAHahaHAHahAHahAhA!!!
*kills Spanner*
HahAHahAhahAhaHAHahAHaHa- URK! *Dies*
*As a ghost*Well, I guess it beats being put on The List...
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I don't feel any need to make Afura's entry specifically "TV Afura". In spite of the fact that OAV Afura is nicer than TV Afura, I still don't consider them different enough to warrant specific entries.
Afura Mann ... Afura has given no indication that she's interested in Makoto romantically. She gets a point because the TV version of her is clearly impressed by him. ... Again using the Wanderers to view her past, it seems that she was a teacher's pet in her early life, and one who used her natural talents to great advantage in securing a position for herself. Such individuals usually don't have a lot of friends, and tend to lead isolated, lonely lives which is the only reason her angst rating isn't lower than it is. ... Afura's primary visable trait is her arrogance, mostly in the Wanderers, but to a degree also in the OAV timeline. That said, she has a lot of self-confidence - though possibly a little too much, given how headstrong she is at times.
:P
OAV Afura is just NOT the bitch, TV Afura is. :bawl But seriously, I don't take any of Wanderers characterizations as canon for anything outside of Wanderers. OAV Afura is NOT in that totally lame competition thing with Shayla. She's her best friend if anything. She's kind with a good mind, not a bitch with overly high standards who'd sooner spit on anyone than help them... unless it involves her goddamned "wind". ^^; I'm sorry, I could never make OAV Afura and TV Afura interchangable. In all fairness, your insights here are very TV based because OAV Afura didn't HAVE a lot of character information. Actually one reason my sister liked Afura was because she wasn't like many of the other females just pouring over Makoto.
(http://www.el-hazardonline.net/El-Hazard/temp/rob/af1.jpg)
OAV - Awesome fighters together as friends! (and look at the little smile on Afura)
(http://www.el-hazardonline.net/El-Hazard/temp/rob/af2.jpg)
TV - Bitchy contenders. Oh wheeee.
*Shudders* Can't sleep... Doujin will eat me... Can't sleep... Doujin will eat me... :-/
The ones I got for free were at least, for the most part, "normal" enough. Why is it the ones I buy are the ones that are more weird than anything? ;p
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Okay, I made a few modifications:
OVA-Ifurita actually tried to resist Jinnai's last command, to kill Makoto, before Makoto destroyed her control circuit. I'd give her an extra point or two for that, either in determination or character, depending on how you look at it.
Yeah, I suppose you're right - probably into determination, rather than character, though, since it had directly to do with just WHO Jinnai had ordered her to kill. She probably would have been less reluctant, if it was just a random guard. (DM grants +1 to DET)
Slightly more determination, slightly less angst.
I'll agree with you on Rune's determination (+1 to DET), but not on her angst. I still think she ranks pretty high...
Slightly less determination, slightly more character.
Naw, I stand by my Shayla stats.
I'd give Nanami a higher angst score, for "Why is my life hard on every world," and (briefly) crying when she finds Makoto at Arliman, and so on. She has her moments. But she does bounce back quickly. She has a lot of inner strength, or driving greed, or both.
Nanami had a really bad time in Alt World. But, from memory, almost all of it was over Makoto+Kauru. If Alt World had been better written, she might have had more profound angst, especially after her Creteria restaurant was damaged. Everyone has a breaking point, and I've wondered if she might have given in to despair, if her time in Creteria had lasted much longer.
Some good points here. (+1 to ANG) However, I can't use the grief she experienced in Creteria, since it had to do with losing out on Makoto. The angst I'm dealing with here needs to be considered independant of the whole romance thing - i.e., which character has had the sorriest lot in life and deserves some sweet, sweet, Makoto lovin' to make it all better. ;D
Determination varies. Might have been fairly high early on, but after she saw Makoto and Rune together, it fell to virtually zero. I would agree that she has a lot more angst than you might first think.
*Nods* A lot of these values fluctuate over time. And I won't even pretend that I tried to do the best I could to find the best value for each character. This was all pretty off-the-cuff. ;D
Huh. Besides a few drabbles, and a silent cameo in "Fujisawa's Wild Kingdom," I've never even written any fan fiction for her. Never realized that before.
At the risk of offending TV Rune fans, that's because she's just not a very interesting character. ^^; She's almost the epitome of the generic anime love interest. Which isn't to say that she's not cute as the dickens, but her personality is a little too bland, her romance with Makoto is a little too formulaic and pat... and so on and so forth.
I'd go 10/10, but at least in the score board that should be 8/10, just like Quawool:
I decided to give TV Iffy +1 to CHR. You're right; she DID deserve a higher Character score. I was probably being overly critical, out of fear that I might end up being too biased in her favor. :)
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OAV Afura is just NOT the bitch, TV Afura is. :bawl But seriously, I don't take any of Wanderers characterizations as canon for anything outside of Wanderers. OAV Afura is NOT in that totally lame competition thing with Shayla. She's her best friend if anything. She's kind with a good mind, not a bitch with overly high standards who'd sooner spit on anyone than help them... unless it involves her goddamned "wind". ^^; I'm sorry, I could never make OAV Afura and TV Afura interchangable. In all fairness, your insights here are very TV based because OAV Afura didn't HAVE a lot of character information. Actually one reason my sister liked Afura was because she wasn't like many of the other females just pouring over Makoto.
I think you're being WAY too overcritical of TV Afura, and definitely taking her and Shayla's rivalry too much at face value. Their competition seems very much of the sort of "Yeah, we fight all the time and pretend to hate each other, but underneath it all we're inseperable friends and will always back each other up" relationship that's common throughout anime. I personally consider Tenchi Muyo's Ryoko and Ayeka to have something similar (at least in the OAVs) - and again, that's another relationship that a lot of fans take too much at face value.
I will grant, though, that given how underdeveloped Afura was in the original OAV, I was geared up to enjoy TV Afura no matter WHAT kind of personality they gave her, so long as they actually GAVE her one. This may have colored my opinion. Suffice it to say, I find TV Afura's arrogance and "bitchiness" intriguing, rather than irritating. And I greatly enjoyed her rivalry with Shayla, which I firmly believe was at least hinted at in the OAVs. ("It's my attack - I get to name it!")
As for being more willing to spit on you than help you... Well, she acts that way, but she still came though in the end. Every single time.
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It just proves she isn't worthless.
Personally, I'm going to very much prefer either leaving OAV Afura undeveloped or freshly developed. I can't stand the rivalry thing. And I'll tell you it'd actually be a bigger problem in OAV than in TV, simply because in OAV we can assume they all live in close quarters all the time (Mt. Muldoon), as opposed to being seperated by individual shrines miles apart.
You have to understand, the rivalry is EVERYTHING to some of us. You can't just discount it. The silly thing about "it's my move, I get to name it" is probably just playfulness at best, maybe an in-joke we're outside of. Nonetheless, in the OAV and OAV2, it's clearly depicted that Afura and Shayla are good friends who get along well. (I can't remember if anything major happened in AW, since they're apart most of the time anyway.)
I suppose it's arbitrary, since something from Wanderers is often conflicting with something from OAV and it's best left alone, but I can't help saying that I can't stand the way the TV writers depicted Afura. What it PROBABLY is, is that I've subconciously developed a crush on Afura's OAV typing (friendly, intelligent, and that gorgeous slightly curled not totally straight hair (http://www.el-hazardonline.net/El-Hazard/temp/rob/poorafura.jpg)!)
Yeah. A lot of fans liked the fact she got a personality because they were so mystified by the sheer lacking of character in the OAV. But just because she got one, that doesn't mean you have to like it. And I don't. There were reasons I exagerrated it to the point of masochistic hints in EHPC/GBA. Because a weird facet of me is, if I really hate something, I'll take it to an opposite polar point so that it just becomes rediculous. :P Call it "clever handling" or something more demeaning, but it's what I do.
Now I'm totally off-topic. But I have to go to work so I don't care. Yeehaw.
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I'd give Nanami a higher angst score, for "Why is my life hard on every world," and (briefly) crying when she finds Makoto at Arliman, and so on. She has her moments.
hmm, she does seem to be angsty with that sucky lot in basically every world.
However, her whining seems to suppress that angst factor compared to OAV Ifurita who keep every pain to herself in silence
No, while I DO consider the idea of a TV Ifurita/Makoto pairing to be incredibly cute (I still grin like an idiot...
ndag, that statement make me look hard to the past trying to remember if I got the idiot grin as well
Yep, incredibly cute, video game ending is just into that theme
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[...] there IS no zero value. The scores are from one to ten ^^;
Oops. And I tried to talk you into an "11" value too. Shame on me, a computer nerd, for raising array-index-out-of-bounds errors.
The angst I'm dealing with here needs to be considered independant of the whole romance thing
Yeah, I wasn't exactly sure which scores were specifically based on Makoto and which were generally based on Life Experiences. That's why I hedged a little bit when I wrote about Nanami's angst.
The last couple of times I've watched Alt World, Nanami's angst was one of the most interesting things to me. One of the most interesting things in a mediocre anime, anyway.
This was all pretty off-the-cuff ;D
As were my replies. Good job, BTW. Like I said, I was really splitting hairs.
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[...] OAV-Afura, who's so much a nicer gal, though so much lesser a character. :P
Maybe the Afuras could be thought of, in short, as the same person with a different back-story and a different environment? I guess that's how I think of her, most of the time. If she lived alone in her own shrine, she might remain more aloof and arrogant than if she lived with Shayla and Miz.
The [doujinshi] I got for free were at least, for the most part, "normal" enough. Why is it the ones I buy are the ones that are more weird than anything? ;P
I have to say, one of the few things that could be more disturbing than brother-sister incest in general might be Katsuhiko-Nanami incest in particular.
A kinda sorta related note. I had a couple queries about those romantic H manga scans that I've found. I was getting ready to upload those to echoalpha.com and temporarily share them, a week or two ago, before the latest round of life-suckage. Anyway, I was looking through them for the first time in at least several months.
I've been studying Japanese almost as long as I've been interested in anime, but I didn't begin studying kana/kanji until recently. So, when I looked at those scans again, it was the first time that I could read even a little of the Japanese text.
You can imagine how I felt when a few of the sweet romantic stories I'd imagined turned out to be brother-sister incest. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
Oh well. There were still a few stories that were about as good as I'd remembered them. I'll post a note here when I get them uploaded.
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You seem to lead a rediculously difficult life. I have to admit I feel bad because you're such a great guy for this community.
Good job with the Japanese, though. If someone could read any of this great unknown stuff, you'd definitely be my hero... if that means anything.
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*Shudders* Can't sleep... Doujin will eat me... Can't sleep... Doujin will eat me... :-/
It's reaaadyyy MUHAAHAHAHAHA...! (http://www.el-hazardonline.net/cgi-bin/eholpage.cgi?series=NA;menu=10;content=doujinshi/elo-hazard.html)
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It's reaaadyyy MUHAAHAHAHAHA...! (http://www.el-hazardonline.net/cgi-bin/eholpage.cgi?series=NA;menu=10;content=doujinshi/elo-hazard.html)
Oh, God...
*Looks anyway. Winces, and shakes head*
Oh, God...
On the plus side, it at least looks as though the Nanami/Jinnai thing was all a bad dream, or something. And, given "her" embarrassed and reluctant reaction, I'm pretty sure that the one you took for Fatora was supposed to be Makoto. I think the "plot" was supposed to go something like this:
Makoto is rudely awakened from his slumber by Nanami, who want to Get Some. They get a little ways into it, before Nanami notices something - Makoto is either under- or unendowed!
Fortunately, it's big brother to the rescue! Unlike that wuss Makoto, HE'S got PLENTY of endowment! Once again, Jinnai has proven his superiority! Nanami happily goes to partake, leaving Makoto to look on in horror and disappointment.
BAM! Makoto wakes up. What a horrible nightmare! It must've been brought on by the discomfort of having to pretend he's a girl, fortunately, Makoto Jr. is still right where it's supposed to be.
Now, not knowing a lick of Japanese, I can't say with any certainty that mine's the right version, but that's just how I interpreted this one.
On a slightly different note, was it just me, or was there WAY too much bodily fluids flying around in the Nanami/Fujisawa one? Heck, there was even some milk squirting from Nanami's breasts, if I'm not mistaken. ^^;
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Let me start by saying that this doujinshi makes me want to end my life. But, um... in a good way? -_- (Though I honestly rather liked the Fujisawa/Nanami one. I think it must be the art, because I didn't really care for the, er... liquid content. x_x)
I demand to know why Jinnai is built like a 10-year-old boy. *grumbles*
And actually, in that dream thing, it's Makoto who's trying to get down with Nanami, only to discover that he's got no equipment. Then he grows breasts. Yup. Ph33r my limited knowledge of Japanese!
Still, talk about one big insecurity dream. Geesh, Makoto's got issues. XP
Jinnai/Nanami freaks me out. And yet... :-/ *stops right there*
Still, I can't help but take notice of the way Jinnai seems to feature in hentai doujinshi so much more often than Makoto does. With good reason, of course. =,]
Rob. Your sidepic... makes me laugh.
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Rob. Your sidepic... makes me laugh.
Glad it functions correctly. ;D
And your sidepic... from where does it come? It sadly looks real good for your point.
And yes, I debated that story constantly about whether it was Fatora or Makoto. I mean, it even suggests Makoto by Fujisawa walking in, but the rest of the time the "Makoto" has breasts. But maybe that's just imagery for Alielle. Like... Nanami wants Makoto, but it turns out Makoto has grown female genitalia... oh my. Perhaps that's what happened. The whole uncertainty of gender business Neil oft mentioned of OAV. Well, pending someone who can read Japanese, I'll update the description. :P
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And your sidepic... from where does it come? It sadly looks real good for your point.
It's, um. Official art. Yeah, that's the ticket!
No, really. It's from a sadly now-defunct Japanese site that was shared on the EH ML a loooong time ago. ^^; I've looked for it since, going as far as searching in Japanese but to no avail... *sigh*
And yes, I debated that story constantly about whether it was Fatora or Makoto. I mean, it even suggests Makoto by Fujisawa walking in, but the rest of the time the "Makoto" has breasts. But maybe that's just imagery for Alielle. Like... Nanami wants Makoto, but it turns out Makoto has grown female genitalia... oh my. Perhaps that's what happened. The whole uncertainty of gender business Neil oft mentioned of OAV. Well, pending someone who can read Japanese, I'll update the description. :P
Hmm, I thought he only had breasts during that part right before Alielle grabs him. But in any case, I can read enough Japanese to know that Nanami is most definitely referring to him as "Makoto-chan"... written in the actual kanji instead of hiragana, which is what most doujinshi seems to do for some reason. I've never understood that... a readability issue, maybe? Mr. What, little help? :-/
He also refers to her as "Nanami-chan", and I suppose it's not inconceivable for Fatora to call her that as well, though it seems unlikely just because she never has before. ^_^;
And yes... I saw it too, Spanner. -.- That's what made me subtract points from that story, because I couldn't help declaring during that final climactic (no pun intended) shot: "THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN!"
Meh, artistic license, I guess. :o
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Heh heh, j00r funny LGJ. ^_^
At any rate, Ifurita is - of course - the one who most deserves Makoto. After all, he is in love with her. His heart reaches out to her and wants to protect her, as any man would. And she loves him back, not just because he rescued her from a life of pain and regret. That's not enough for love. But the fact that he loves her unconditionally, despite the numerous atrocities she's commited. Despite the fact that she, theoretically, isn't even human. And that, he's willing to do anything to save her, even jump in front of her during combat or throw himself into the Eye of God to prevent her from having to do such a dangerous thing herself. This is why the bond between them is so strong inseperable. It's what the Japanese call the red string of fate, in the form of the mobius strip we know as inter-dimensional time/space travel. The two are tied together in a way that no other two chara in the series can be. Not even TV Rune and Makoto (but that's another story all together). The OVA does pretty much revolve around Ifurita and Makoto, and their relationship.
None of the other girls really love him as much. Nanami is his childhood friend, so naturally she gets jealous. Having to compete with Shayla is one thing. But having to compete with Ifurita is a whole different battle. She knows Makoto is drawn to Ifurita's pain and that she can't compete with that. That's probably the main reason why she got so mad when he was staring of into space and mumbling her name. And while the other girls are cute beyond a doubt, Ifurita has a beauty and noble air about her that overshadows other females around her. Whether under the control of the obedience circuit or not, and even in the "school flashbacks" her and Makoto share, she always holds her head high and proud. This is probably also part of the reason why Makoto is drawn to TV Rune. If that's his type, then there just isn't anything any other woman can do about it.
Also, after the obedience circuit is opened, Ifurita immediately takes on a yasashi (gentle) demeanor, which must have been her true personality that lay dormant. As those of you who watch alot of anime know, Japanese men are suckers for this type of personality (Right MrWhat? *COUGH*K1/Belldandy*COUGH*). The yasashi personality seems to be something Nanami, and especially Shayla, have a heard time with. So, in short, the two are simply made for each other from the beginning. Also, Makoto can tap into her thoughts and memories. Which is something no other human can do. Despite being from two different worlds, and even being two different life forms, the two are bound together by fate. Their first meeting under the school is einishi.
And as far as Shayla goes, like Nanami, is she really in love with Makoto after all? Sure, he saves her by jumping in front of Ifurita's blast. Extremely reckless, and seemingly suicidal. But as I said earlier, mearly being saved by someone isn't enough for true love. Shayla's feelings of love may be confused with deep gratitude and indebtitude. In otherwords, Shayla feels a karmic debt to Makoto perhaps. Also, although he jumped in front of the blast to save Shayla, was he really doing it for her sake or for Ifurita's? ^_^
My apologies if I've used too many japanese words in this explanation. But you have to understand, this series is created by a people who believe deeply in eastern religious philosophy. So, it's the only way for me to understand and explain why things happen the way they do, from their standpoint. ^^;
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It's interesting, though, that the VAST majority of female anime love interests seem to be tomboyish, or violent, or extremely powerful, or loudmouthed, or any combination of the above - just about as far from yasashi as it's possible to get. While it is certainly true that most of these ladies "settle down" once they catch their man (or, if they're looking to the future they intend to share with him often envision themselves as demure, domestic housewife types), it's still worth noting as an aspect of Japanese culture. Tenchi Muyo's Ryoko is one example of this - she combines ALL of the above traits, and yet dreams of a future where she and Tenchi can settle down in a nice, traditional Japanese household, where she can wait on him hand and foot like a good Japanese wife.
So, what does this mean? That Japanese men desire strength and independence in their prospective mates, but expect them to set all that aside and become proper, obedient housewives once they're married? Perhaps they desire the strength that a strong mother can pass on to their children, but they don't desire the hassle of putting up with a strong wife? That, perhaps, is a cynical way of looking at things. But is there a better explanation?
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I agree Saucer. There is one thing in my mind though.
Exactly how human is Ifurita? She's definitely capable of falling in love, but what about other capabilities like making love with Makoto or becoming pregnant?
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"You're free, Ifurita."
"I really am free!"
"Now become my good, obiendent Japanese housewife who attends to my every need!"
As for the "how human" question... that one will probably be in debate for ages. We simply have no evidence any particular direction. :P I mean, the concept of using an existing body of flesh and attaching electronics to it (cyborg) is probably the most likely thing simply because a true body is something very hard to duplicate. However, my sister likes robots and I know she's like to think of Ifurita as something of all metal and artifical skin. And for a fighting device, that's probably the better design.
But that's not to say that the creators weren't possibly perverted enough to develop machines that could emulate sex. Basically, I guess you give Ifurita whatever makes your mind happy since no one can disprove it. :P
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I say she's not really a cyborg at all.
Maybe a genetically engineered lifeform based off of the human genome and fused with nanomechanical engineering to produce a 100% human being with a mechanically engineered genetic substructure via the nanotechnology implemented on a subgenetic level, allowing her to do things beyond the capability of any natural life form, as well as survive extreme enviromental inhibitions (eg death, sickness, injury). An advanced cerebral capacity capable of on demand interaction with her unatural substructure, allowing her to not only learn but adapt knowledge for her own physical benefit. A heavily suprior conciousness with an unlimited capacity for knowledge., marred only by a mental deprecation preventing self-learning of specific things to prevent disobedience. Able to feel emotion, but created without knowledge of it, or of free will.
Anyone else concur? ^^;
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I most definitely do. I think.
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You seem to lead a ridiculously difficult life. I have to admit I feel bad because you're such a great guy for this community.
Oh, don't mind me. I just like to worry.
The latest thing was, I've had to start showing other people at work how to do my job, so that it will be easier to take my job away from me. That's always bad for morale. But I've since learned that my contract will probably be extended through next June 30. So, things are better again, maybe.
Huh. I like to think I have character and determination, and I'm generating some angst points too. Maybe I "deserve" Makoto. That was a joke.
Good job with the Japanese, though. If someone could read any of this great unknown stuff, you'd definitely be my hero... if that means anything.
Thanks. It's been so difficult for me to write fanfic lately that I may give up for awhile, and put the time into trying to translate some EH stuff. I'm not really fluent enough for translation work yet, but AFAIK no one else better qualified is doing it, and that's as good for practice as anything.
If I could hang onto this job for just another few years, and if I can keep up this pace of self-study, I'd seriously consider changing careers. I don't know if there's much demand for Japanese translation work by native-English speakers, or how well it pays, but maybe that kind of job would be less likely to be lost to India :P
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It's reaaadyyy MUHAAHAHAHAHA...! (http://www.el-hazardonline.net/cgi-bin/eholpage.cgi?series=NA;menu=10;content=doujinshi/elo-hazard.html)
Thanks, Rob.
Probably "Too Much Information" again-- but I actually got into Afura's self-service in the library ^^; Some of the expressions on her face? And her body language? They're just... wow. And her uniform must be really skin-tight.
I've always wanted to draw a much-less-explicit fanart of Nanami bathing in money. Something like Scrooge McDuck swimming in his vault, maybe.
I LOLed when Deva turned up in a school uniform, and Alielle's eyes turned into hearts. Too bad Deva went creepy on the very next page. No wonder Jinnai screamed in Alt World ep 13.
Strange that OVA-Ifurita got the cover, but she had only a cameo in the last story. Y'know, if I had a demon god that could harmlessly blast away clothing, like Ifurita did with Afura? I'd say, nuts to nuking cities. I'd just have her strip everyone. Besides the sheer entertainment value, people should be easier to conquer when they're nekkid.
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[...] "Makoto-chan"... written in the actual kanji instead of hiragana, which is what most doujinshi seems to do for some reason. I've never understood that... a readability issue, maybe? Mr. What, little help? :-/
I'm sure you know this, but most kanji have "name" readings (nanori) in addition to their on-yomi and kun-yomi. That's how people are named in Japanese. And I'm sure others here (Saucer?) know more about this than I do, but the Japanese put a lot of thought into naming their children. I think they even count the strokes in the kanji for luck, or something.
It also depends on the name. Foreign names are written in katakana. And I do see Japanese names written in kana-- I'm pretty sure that I've seen Nanami's name in both kanji and kana. Maybe Nanami's name uses a "harder" kanji. Some of the less literate doujinshi "spell out" almost everything in kana.
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Okay, here's what I could make out from the story titles in the "ELO-Hazard" table of contents. Not bad for an amateur, I think-- I only got stumped once. (Rob, if you'd prefer to continue this in, or move this to, a separate topic-- you're the boss.)
5. toshima no sekai eruhazaado
a~ ai shi no fujisawa ? hen
5. El-Hazard: The World Of The Middle-Aged Woman
Ah, the loving's Fujisawa ? compilation/book/part-of-book
Sorry, I couldn't find a compound of those last two kanji.
15. kijin no sekai eruhazaado
choukyoushi VS zenigamejo
15. El-Hazard: The World Of Eccentric People
Super-Teacher VS Money-Turtle? Girl
zeni (coins/money) + kame (turtle) = zenigame (pond turtle). But that must be an idiom, or a pun, or something, given Nanami's obsession with money.
24. mono ai no sekai eruhazaado - Fe.
24. El-Hazard: The World Of Object Love - Fe. [Female?]
31. seifuku no sekai eruhazaado
jinnai katsuhiko no kojinteki na yabou
31. El-Hazard: The World Of Uniforms
Katsuhiko Jinnai's personal aspiration
39. akumu no sekai eruhazaado
39. El-Hazard: The World Of Nightmares
49. bousou no sekai eruhazaado
jinnai no kedarui gogo
49. El-Hazard: The World Of Delusions
Jinnai's languid afternoon
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Probably "Too Much Information" again-- but I actually got into Afura's self-service in the library ^^; Some of the expressions on her face? And her body language? They're just... wow. And her uniform must be really skin-tight.
It's okay. I think with the sheer amount we have so far there's something for everyone at this point. ;) But yes... "skin tight". The OAV definitely seemed to accent her butt. :P
Strange that OVA-Ifurita got the cover, but she had only a cameo in the last story. Y'know, if I had a demon god that could harmlessly blast away clothing, like Ifurita did with Afura? I'd say, nuts to nuking cities. I'd just have her strip everyone. Besides the sheer entertainment value, people should be easier to conquer when they're nekkid.
I had a similar thought myself. ;D
39. El-Hazard: The World Of Nightmares
49. El-Hazard: The World Of Delusions
Jinnai's languid afternoon
Those two seem pretty accurate, eh? :P
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It's interesting, though, that the VAST majority of female anime love interests seem to be tomboyish, or violent, or extremely powerful, or loudmouthed, or any combination of the above - just about as far from yasashi as it's possible to get. While it is certainly true that most of these ladies "settle down" once they catch their man (or, if they're looking to the future they intend to share with him often envision themselves as demure, domestic housewife types), it's still worth noting as an aspect of Japanese culture. Tenchi Muyo's Ryoko is one example of this - she combines ALL of the above traits, and yet dreams of a future where she and Tenchi can settle down in a nice, traditional Japanese household, where she can wait on him hand and foot like a good Japanese wife.
There's something very alluring about a woman who's violent and flips out constantly. Don't ask me to explain it. Some of my friends think I'm weird and hate chara like Narusegawa from Love Hina and Akane from Ranma 1/2 for the very same reasons I love them. "Peau-san, please wear these heels and walk all over me!" -Tommy/Hyper Police
So, what does this mean? That Japanese men desire strength and independence in their prospective mates, but expect them to set all that aside and become proper, obedient housewives once they're married? Perhaps they desire the strength that a strong mother can pass on to their children, but they don't desire the hassle of putting up with a strong wife? That, perhaps, is a cynical way of looking at things. But is there a better explanation?
Yes. Remember, Japan is the country where women are more oppressed than in the west. Yet, at the same time, they have more control over the household. Anime is a reflection of real life Japan. Often in anime, tomboys are told they better settle down or they'll never snag a man. Even though women in Japan now have an easier time continuing their careers, there's still the social stigma that you work a few years, get married and retire so you can have a baby. The yasashi personality is considered to be the Yamato Nadesico (true Japanese woman) which is the most desirable. Maybe it really is a husbands desire not to have an overbearing and controlling wife? Or, maybe it's just too foreign a concept for westerners to understand? It's interesting to compare this side by side with the violent chiXx0r and lolita complexes that are so prevelant in anime and Japanese society. ^^;
I agree Saucer. There is one thing in my mind though.
Exactly how human is Ifurita? She's definitely capable of falling in love, but what about other capabilities like making love with Makoto or becoming pregnant?
It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. What with Naomi Armitage (Armitage III) and May (Hand Maid May) supposedly being able to bear children. And then there's the infamous sex-a-roid's of Bubblegum Crisis and Ghost in the Shell (manga). ^^;
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I say she's not really a cyborg at all.
Maybe a genetically engineered lifeform based off of the human genome and fused with nanomechanical engineering to produce a 100% human being with a mechanically engineered genetic substructure via the nanotechnology implemented on a subgenetic level, allowing her to do things beyond the capability of any natural life form, as well as survive extreme enviromental inhibitions (eg death, sickness, injury). An advanced cerebral capacity capable of on demand interaction with her unatural substructure, allowing her to not only learn but adapt knowledge for her own physical benefit. A heavily suprior conciousness with an unlimited capacity for knowledge., marred only by a mental deprecation preventing self-learning of specific things to prevent disobedience. Able to feel emotion, but created without knowledge of it, or of free will.
Anyone else concur? ^^;
That's a very good point Raven. I've thought about the nanotech thing myself often. It certainly would make alot of things about Ifurita "scietifically plausible." Then again, maybe alot of things about Ifurita are simply gimmick? Anime is as much about imagination and the impossible as it is about realism. I mean, Ifurita winds up like a toy. That's awesome! Heh heh ^_^ Artificial people in anime are certainly given alot more liberty than they are in western literature, but I'd say there's no denying that Ifurita is more orgasnic than anything else.
I'm sure you know this, but most kanji have "name" readings (nanori) in addition to their on-yomi and kun-yomi. That's how people are named in Japanese. And I'm sure others here (Saucer?) know more about this than I do, but the Japanese put a lot of thought into naming their children. I think they even count the strokes in the kanji for luck, or something.
The meaning of names also hold alot more importance, as the Japanese often use words that are still in common, rather than archaic usage. A very good example of this is Makoto, which means "truth." Two other very common Japanese names that are also every day words are; Aoi, which means "blue" and Hikaru, which means "light." Those are two that come to my mind at the moment, although there are literally hundreds of other examples.
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I, for one, tend to believe that Ifurita is 100% robot, with artificial skin and whatnot. I like to think that the technology that composes her is similar to a lot of the other bits of ancient El-Hazard technology we see here and there - a combination of simple mechanics combined with elements that our limited science cannot even begin to grasp.
As for whether she can have sex... Well, her purpose is to be a weapon of mass destruction. That's a given. It's how she considers herself, and it's what was indicated by just about all of the memories we witnessed. Whatever ancient warlord commissioned her construction wanted something that could kick ass on an enormous scale. However, that same eccentric warlord apparently wanted his weapon of mass destruction to look like a beautiful woman. And so, it was made so.
Now, the question is, WHY did he want his superweapon to look like a beautiful woman? It could be simple aesthetics. He may have liked to surround himself with beautiful things, and wished for his prized weapon to be beautiful as well. However, it is also possible that he delighted in the thought that he could send his weapon out to dominate other nations, and then take her to his bed and dominate her himself. It must be quite a rush to have a being of such awesome power submit herself to you utterly, at your every whim, right?
So, if Ifurita WAS given the ability and organs to have sex, it probably meant that she was used in a very degrading manner when she wasn't out killing and slaughtering. Not a happy thought. Just another reason why Ifurita hated her very existence, I guess. On the bright side, she might be thankful for it now, if it gives her the ability to more greatly please Makoto.
As for whether she could become pregnant and give birth, I highly doubt it. Whether Ifurita is a robot, a cyborg, or an engineered humanoid, she's still a weapon. A pregnant weapon is not generally a useful one, after all. The ancients of El-Hazard very likely would not have relied on such a crude and haphazard method of creating new Demon Gods. Ifurita is most likely sterile.
Of course, now that Ifurita has free will, perhaps her formidable abilities might be able to grant her such a thing. Might her abilities for copying techniques manage to find a way for she and Makoto to conceive a baby together? The limits of Ifurita's powers were never clearly defined. Who knows WHAT she could do, if she were to put her mind to it?
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Ah. Nicely put, Spanner. I like this description best of all I've heard, actually. It applies enough logic to make sense out of everything. (I always bet metal and artificial skin myself, simply because that's a lot easier to maintain than flesh, which would require circulating blood/etc.)
Of course, now that Ifurita has free will, perhaps her formidable abilities might be able to grant her such a thing. Might her abilities for copying techniques manage to find a way for she and Makoto to conceive a baby together? The limits of Ifurita's powers were never clearly defined. Who knows WHAT she could do, if she were to put her mind to it?
Yeah, that's food for thought alright. I do suppose it would depend how she can reconfigure for random abilities whether or not it'd be possible. Ah well. Worst comes to worst, you can always adopt and make some other being happy. That's gotta at least be satisfying. :P
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A very good example of this is Makoto, which means "truth."
Deva's very first line, in the first OVA, just before she meets Jinnai, is nani? makoto ka? (What? Is that true?) Seeing as how she hadn't heard of Makoto yet, that was very confusing for me, until I looked up makoto.
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I always liked the term "bio-mechanical construct" myself. But how much of Ifurita is mechanical? I don't know. I try not to work out back-story until I need it, if you know what I mean.
From memory, we've never seen her without her headband-thingy, or the choker around her neck-- they might actually be built "into" her.
Her power-key socket would have to be mounted against her pelvic bones, I think. Or her entire skeletal structure may have been redesigned, for various reasons.
I assumed in The Charm (http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=758762) that, if an OVA demon god lost a limb, it could regrow it with a full charge and a lot of human food. But that could still allow for a semi-metallic skeletal structure, and weird synthetic polycarbon flesh, and such.
From memory, Makoto did mention her "spring" running down in OVA1 ep7. But he may have been using a metaphor there. Or the spring could be surprisingly compact, and tightly integrated into her key-staff socket-- or the key-staff itself.
That's one of my pet theories-- that a demon-god's key-staff is her "battery." What got me started on that is, Ifurita's key-staff is called a zenmai in Japanese. But the textbook definition of zenmai is "mainspring." To me, that implies that her power is stored in her key-staff. It also makes sense to store the power in the shooty part, because that function should require the most power.
That would make Ifurita's journey to Earth even more dramatic. She faced certain death by leaving her key-staff-battery behind with Makoto, and using up all her residual energy to send him to EH.
Anyway... I do think Ifurita has some significant pseudo-organic composition. And there is some circumstantial evidence for this. Off the top of my head:
In OVA1 ep1 and ep7, Ifurita cries. This implies that her eyes use water, if nothing else.
In OVA2, when Makoto finds Yuba's Ifurita after her fall, he says, "She feels stone cold!" Even if she were significantly different from Makoto's Ifurita, note that Makoto says that as if he expects her to be warm. Assuming that Makoto hasn't encountered any other demon gods between OVA1 and OVA2, that implies that Makoto's Ifurita has body warmth. Ifurita could be a machine that generates heat... but she wouldn't be an ultimate weapon if she were a machine so poorly designed that she built up much heat at all.
I did write out some further Ifurita guesswork way back in What's It Like (http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=758652). To summarize: Can Ifurita have sex? Yes, but [spoiler]. Can Ifurita have children? No.
Well, I used up another evening to go off on another tangent. OVA-Ifurita fan-boy that I am, I still say Nanami Was There First ::)
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In OVA1 ep1 and ep7, Ifurita cries. This implies that her eyes use water, if nothing else.
Eh. If you can make her sexual, I'm sure you can make her cry. :P
*reads "What's It Like"*
Hum. Well, that story suggest an alternative way to get into the activity.
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I, for one, tend to believe that Ifurita is 100% robot, with artificial skin and whatnot. I like to think that the technology that composes her is similar to a lot of the other bits of ancient El-Hazard technology we see here and there - a combination of simple mechanics combined with elements that our limited science cannot even begin to grasp.
As for whether she can have sex... Well, her purpose is to be a weapon of mass destruction. That's a given. It's how she considers herself, and it's what was indicated by just about all of the memories we witnessed. Whatever ancient warlord commissioned her construction wanted something that could kick ass on an enormous scale. However, that same eccentric warlord apparently wanted his weapon of mass destruction to look like a beautiful woman. And so, it was made so.
Now, the question is, WHY did he want his superweapon to look like a beautiful woman? It could be simple aesthetics. He may have liked to surround himself with beautiful things, and wished for his prized weapon to be beautiful as well. However, it is also possible that he delighted in the thought that he could send his weapon out to dominate other nations, and then take her to his bed and dominate her himself. It must be quite a rush to have a being of such awesome power submit herself to you utterly, at your every whim, right?
So, if Ifurita WAS given the ability and organs to have sex, it probably meant that she was used in a very degrading manner when she wasn't out killing and slaughtering. Not a happy thought. Just another reason why Ifurita hated her very existence, I guess. On the bright side, she might be thankful for it now, if it gives her the ability to more greatly please Makoto.
As for whether she could become pregnant and give birth, I highly doubt it. Whether Ifurita is a robot, a cyborg, or an engineered humanoid, she's still a weapon. A pregnant weapon is not generally a useful one, after all. The ancients of El-Hazard very likely would not have relied on such a crude and haphazard method of creating new Demon Gods. Ifurita is most likely sterile.
Of course, now that Ifurita has free will, perhaps her formidable abilities might be able to grant her such a thing. Might her abilities for copying techniques manage to find a way for she and Makoto to conceive a baby together? The limits of Ifurita's powers were never clearly defined. Who knows WHAT she could do, if she were to put her mind to it?
If Ifurita were indeed "100% robot," then for what reason would she both possess emotions (albeit suppressed ones) and anatomical correctness? The very fact that she has freewill and needs to have it supressed for the purpose of being a killing machine implies that she was created for more than simply fighting. Nobody, no matter how mad they are, would go to the trouble of creating such a life-like replica of humanity and then reverse-engineer her into a weapon. I'd say, it's fairly obvious that Ifurita is some advanced form of life. Possibly an even older race than the ancients of El Hazard, whose technology carried perhaps them so far that they became bio-mechanical lifeforms to project their longevity. Or, Ifurita could have been a powerful cyborg created for the purposes of rule and/or protection, such as Shion; the Cyborg Empress of Johji Manabe's Caravan Kidd. Ancient people's of El-Hazard could have found her "entombed" (more likely, in stasis) just as Makoto did and placed the "obedience circuit" (more likely some sort of sub-routine) in her. Most likely after the fact. If Ifurita was indeed as benevolent and opposed to mass destruction as she seemed (as you can tell by how much she tried to resist the control of the obedience circuit), it's likely that she could be have been naive enough to be led down this path by people seeking the ultimate weapon to usurp their rivals.
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You needn't overcomplicate it too much, Saucer. There's many possibilities of how she could still be a manufactured design and yet rewired. I mean, we can assume El-Hazard of the past was a space-age society. And I very much mean space-age; the Eye of God is basically like a giant space-warp drive of sci-fi fame.
Like many animes, Ifurita was probably originally designed to spec as any of the generic too-good-to-ever-be-true humanoid robots. What's missing is the link that makes her into a weapon requiring a conscience override. This story could be almost anything. It could be as simple as the manga's "Oops, we made her too perfect, now we need to jump backward and screw with her head" or something else more sinister. Something tells me she was not designed to do what she eventually was found to be doing, but someone had gone mad enough to rewire her. Perhaps "he" is the leader of the rebellion on Ifurita's home turf who needed all the brain power and sophistication of their best 'bots but required her to work without thinking about the results. (More or less you can see this in TV Ifurita; "he" probably suffered the same type of resistance from Ifurita.)
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You needn't overcomplicate it too much, Saucer. There's many possibilities of how she could still be a manufactured design and yet rewired. I mean, we can assume El-Hazard of the past was a space-age society. And I very much mean space-age; the Eye of God is basically like a giant space-warp drive of sci-fi fame.
That's pretty much been the point of the last two pages of this thread, hasn't it? ^^;
Like many animes, Ifurita was probably originally designed to spec as any of the generic too-good-to-ever-be-true humanoid robots. What's missing is the link that makes her into a weapon requiring a conscience override. This story could be almost anything. It could be as simple as the manga's "Oops, we made her too perfect, now we need to jump backward and screw with her head" or something else more sinister. Something tells me she was not designed to do what she eventually was found to be doing, but someone had gone mad enough to rewire her. Perhaps "he" is the leader of the rebellion on Ifurita's home turf who needed all the brain power and sophistication of their best 'bots but required her to work without thinking about the results. (More or less you can see this in TV Ifurita; "he" probably suffered the same type of resistance from Ifurita.)
Isn't that basically what I just got through saying? ^^; ^^; ^^;
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Isn't that basically what I just got through saying? ^^; ^^; ^^;
Specifically, I was thinking of this middle chunk:
...Nobody, no matter how mad they are, would go to the trouble of creating such a life-like replica of humanity and then reverse-engineer her into a weapon. I'd say, it's fairly obvious that Ifurita is some advanced form of life. Possibly an even older race than the ancients of El Hazard, whose technology carried perhaps them so far that they became bio-mechanical lifeforms to project their longevity. Or, Ifurita could have been a powerful cyborg created for the purposes of rule and/or protection, such as Shion; the Cyborg Empress of Johji Manabe's Caravan Kidd. Ancient people's of El-Hazard could have found her "entombed" (more likely, in stasis)...
:P
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I'd say, it's fairly obvious that Ifurita is some advanced form of life. Possibly an even older race than the ancients of El Hazard, whose technology carried perhaps them so far that they became bio-mechanical lifeforms to project their longevity. Or, Ifurita could have been a powerful cyborg created for the purposes of rule and/or protection, such as Shion; the Cyborg Empress of Johji Manabe's Caravan Kidd. Ancient people's of El-Hazard could have found her "entombed" (more likely, in stasis) just as Makoto did and placed the "obedience circuit" (more likely some sort of sub-routine) in her. Most likely after the fact. If Ifurita was indeed as benevolent and opposed to mass destruction as she seemed (as you can tell by how much she tried to resist the control of the obedience circuit), it's likely that she could be have been naive enough to be led down this path by people seeking the ultimate weapon to usurp their rivals.
You prove a good point :) It may be possible that Ifurita is another form of life, existing far longer and far earlier than the ancient El-Hazardians.
However I still keep my vote for a lifeform based on both the human genome and an implementation of nanomechanical enhancements, created by the Ancients.
A super-human life form that is, essentially, a living enbodyment of artifically-enhanced evolution. The beginning of man's journey to becoming a 100% artificial, non-natural lifeform. S\/\/33t :D
On the above note, one way to explain her attempts to resist obedience can be linked to a neural limitation that she wishes to override. Essentially Ifurita is aware of free will, and like any form of life is drawn to it. Unfortunately her programming prevents this from being assimilated into her concience. Kind of life a 'conflict of interest'.
On an unrelated topic, I also like to think that the whole theocracy of Mount Muldoon and their powers are the product of science rather than magic.
Like devices able to manipulate physical matter on a molecular level, such as the lamps each priestess has.
When it comes down to it, My view of the theocracy is it was formed shortly after the great ancient wars, and was actually a man-made organization formed for authoritarian purposes, involving devices which the follows simply could not understand, to show a form of physical proof that the beliefs of the founders were real.
Dun mind me, I like to rationalize everything I see :D
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On an unrelated topic, I also like to think that the whole theocracy of Mount Muldoon and their powers are the product of science rather than magic.
Like devices able to manipulate physical matter on a molecular level, such as the lamps each priestess has.
When it comes down to it, My view of the theocracy is it was formed shortly after the great ancient wars, and was actually a man-made organization formed for authoritarian purposes, involving devices which the follows simply could not understand, to show a form of physical proof that the beliefs of the founders were real.
Dun mind me, I like to rationalize everything I see :D
No, actually that was an exact point I made in some other topic a long time ago. :P I'd say we think very similarly!
http://www.el-hazardonline.net/cgi-bin/ehol/YaBB.pl?board=ehol;action=display;num=1046413327;start=0
Right around where it starts off "I see most of everything in El-Hazard is a figment of the technologal past. And I do mean everything -- right down to the priestess's supposed holy artifacts, the lamps..."
(P.S. Don't argue any points I made in THAT thread; many of my opinions have changed lately... so we'll just talk about it if/when it comes up again ^^; )
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IFURITA OAV GETS MAKOTO!
When we combine all the El Hazard episodes according to their timelines, it would be like this:
1. El Hazard : The Mysterious World
2. El Hazard : The Magnificent World (OAV 1)
3. El Hazard : The Magnificent World 2 (OAV 2)
4. El Hazard : The Alternative World
5. El Hazard : The Magnificent World (OAV 1) Ending
Am I right or wrong?
We saw the ending of the OAV 1, right? It ends everything. Ifurita gets Makoto. Not Shayla, not Nanami, not Rune, not Afura and not Kaour.
If Ifurita did not get Makoto, why did Makoto kept his promise to Ifu? Makoto had a lot of time with Shayla, Nanami and Kaour in the Alternative World. But Makoto's focus was on how he could unlock the secrets of the Eye of God to see Ifurita again..
Still confused? Better watch the El Hazard : The Magnificent World again, especially on the last scenes...
;D
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IFURITA OAV GETS MAKOTO!
Now now. We all "know" that's how it's "supposed" to be. ;) We're allowed to dream a little, though.
When we combine all the El Hazard episodes according to their timelines, it would be like this:
1. El Hazard : The Mysterious World
What is this? I'm confused.
We saw the ending of the OAV 1, right? It ends everything. Ifurita gets Makoto. Not Shayla, not Nanami, not Rune, not Afura and not Kaour.
"Kaour". That's a new one. ^^; (I have an official set of site spellings I'm going to use based on English dubbing for consistency of my own documents; mine is the very rarely seen "Quawool".)
If Ifurita did not get Makoto, why did Makoto kept his promise to Ifu? Makoto had a lot of time with Shayla, Nanami and Kaour in the Alternative World. But Makoto's focus was on how he could unlock the secrets of the Eye of God to see Ifurita again..
Still confused? Better watch the El Hazard : The Magnificent World again, especially on the last scenes...
;D
Like I said, we KNOW how it's "supposed" to be. But even though many of us were touched by the whole Ifurita reunion ending, I know a lot of us think "Hey... that's not altogether fair for some of the other girls." My dad always basically said that if you're not married to a girl, you have no absolute requirement to remain with her.
You know, was it ever defined that Makoto had a lustful interest in Ifurita? I mean, he promised to return and perhaps even loved her, but was it really... *clobbered by Ifurita fans everywhere*
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that's more like
*clobbered, hacked, stabbed, chopped, stewed, and broiled by Ifurita fans everywhere*
since this topic is up :D, I might as well put my latest strange thought...
it should be AFURA MANN, that's right, Wanderers Afura Mann who is "disliked" by some.
why?
well, they'll just look VERY kyoote :-[ :D :-*
and just like in Magnificent world where Makoto's good heart can break Ifurita's shell, I'm sure after their pairing, Afura would be a newly transformed lady...maybe like Qawool ;)
please note that I'm not accounting for responses from the other ladies of EH when this occurs
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since this topic is up :D, I might as well put my latest strange thought...
it should be AFURA MANN, that's right, Wanderers Afura Mann who is "disliked" by some.
why?
well, they'll just look VERY kyoote :-[ :D :-*
and just like in Magnificent world where Makoto's good heart can break Ifurita's shell, I'm sure after their pairing, Afura would be a newly transformed lady...maybe like Qawool ;)
please note that I'm not accounting for responses from the other ladies of EH when this occurs
Garg. I'd never wanna see Afura turn into Qawool. -_- Especially as she's already, well, Afura.
Really, Makoto and Afura might work, if Makoto wasn't so much a hapless weenie a lot of the time (I mean that in the most affectionate way... ^^; ) and if Afura wasn't quite so cool and taciturn. They could be all geeky and intellectual together. ^_^ I admit I like that sort of dynamic much more than the "I'll save you I love you we're meant to be together!" that occurs so often in anime... >_> But that's just me. Of course, you all know where I ultimately stand on this issue. >:B
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They could be all geeky and intellectual together. ^_^
I never thought of it that way specifically. That's actually a very good point.
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Okey Rob, :-[
Kaour is used in AXN so i thought it is really the genuine name of Quawool...
I also thought that Ifurita's name was Iphreeta..
I saw a site using Kaour instead of Quawool --> I was quite convinced by that so, sorry if Im mistaken..
Just correct me if im wrong, okey? :( :'( :)
I'll be AYA MIKAGE from now on...
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Actually, I think "Quawool" was invented locally. I was actually using "Qawool" up until not too long ago. (Except in plain English, a Q without a U becomes a "K" sound)
I've come to standardize Quawool for use at THIS site because it's the English pronounciation used in the dub. Also a common name you'll find is "Arjah". What's funny is that isn't even correct for the "Engrish" Japanese pronounciation of his name. The name is pronounced "Ah-ru-jah" in Japanese, so I'd say "Arujah" would be a closer fit. But even so, I've standardized it as "Allujah" because that's how they said it in English.
So all documents of mine related to AW will be using "Quawool", "Allujah", and also "Parnosse".
But I wasn't trying to insult your spelling skills or anything. Quawool ... or Qawool ... or Qawoor ... or Kauru... or ... yeah. A lot of spellings on that one. ^^;
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You know, was it ever defined that Makoto had a lustful interest in Ifurita? I mean, he promised to return and perhaps even loved her, but was it really... *clobbered by Ifurita fans everywhere*
Yes, but relationships aren't all about sex. ^^;
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No, but my dad once told me that sooner or later that's what it all really comes down to. I mean, no, you're not in it just for sex, that's a pretty hollow existence. But the truest reason for finding a mate is just a cover-up for that little "reproducing the species so it survives" bit that we're all involved in at some low level. ::) Could you seriously love someone intimately if you weren't interested at all in that part of it? I've noticed a large part of our psychology is built on sexual and aggressive behavior. Wait, there's a particular famous psychologist I must be a fan of unknowningly... -_- That would most definitely fit in to why there's so much HENTAI doujinshi as opposed to the other type.
Har. Anyway. Makoto+Ifurita. If Makoto doesn't find some physical level of bonding with Ifurita, then any "love" is merely in the type that all humans ought to have for each other; a deep caring for her plight and a grand respect for her sacrifice. Let's say Makoto is at least the first real friend she's ever had. This doesn't necessarily say he's actually in a "relationship" per se. Makoto could be the first to really care about her, but nothing in the entire OAV really solidifies that he's actually really in love with her. So what if he stands around and thinks of her? Wouldn't you do that if say a sibling or a close friend was off listening to the commands of a lunatic and forced to kill people? It must be hell to see the real good side of a person (Makoto finds this in the mind link) and then realize they're being forced to do horrible things against their will.
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Rob - "Wait, there's a particular famous psychologist I must be a fan of unknowningly..."
You are referring to Dr. Sigmond Freud.
Freud, being the man he is, stated that most of our life is based around sexual pleasure.
Oral pleasure, the first stage, happens around birth. Sucking on a thumb, a blanket, or another object gives them this great feeling, which could explain why the baby enjoys being with the mother.
Anal pleasure, the second stage, happens during potty training. Teaching them that they are supposed to go sometime (and not in their pants). The child could hold it in to have a mix of pleasure and pain (which, he would say, makes the person very clean and "anal retentive") or just let it out and smear it all over (making the person a messy and reflective one).
During most of childhood, there is a latent stage where there is no pleasure anywhere.
The final stage is probably the most obvious, the genital stage.
Taking a step further, he even said that some objects represented organs. Anything elongated (sticks, rods) would represent the male sex organ. Anything that has an interior (fridges, boxes, ovens) would represent the female sex organ.
With a sense of irony, Freud was a cigar smoker. He simply said, "Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar."
His philosophy was not without controversey. Karen Horney disregarded him because he tended to refer to women as "defective men" or just not mention them altogether. Freud said that women suffer from "penis envy" because they lack it. Horney said that men have "womb envy" because they don't have breasts or the ability to bear children.
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Ah, Freud. What a wacky guy. Truth is, he said all KINDS of things that most psychologists do not acknowledge today, most of which is about sex. He was a great pioneer in the field of psychology, and his introduction of the theory of the subconscious totally revolutionized the field. But strictly Freudian psychology is seldom practiced today. (And when it is, it is frequently frowned upon by other psychologists.)
As for me, yeah, I think that what we think of as "romantic" love DOES require a sexual component (though, not necessarily a reproductive component, even if that is what is biologically intended). Really, I tend to be of the school of thought that "love is love is love" (possibly not what Dooky intended by his avatar quote ;D). At its core, there's no difference between the love you feel for a parent, or the love you feel for a friend, or the love you feel for a lover, or even the love that you feel for a pet. Certainly there are degrees to it - you might love your brother more than you love your best friend, or your cat - but it all boils down to the same kind of thing. If you love someone, you have an affection for them, you wish to be near them, you are concerned for their well-being, and so on.
When it comes to differentiating between the different kinds of love, you add additional components that "flavor" the love in different ways. It's certainly possible to desire to have sex with someone that you do not love. It is also possible to love someone that you do not desire to have sex with. But a person that you love and desire have sex with is a lover (or a potential lover), and so the love is referred to as romantic.
At least, this is what I believe, for now. It is certainly true that romantic love is not a subject that I have an overwhelming amount of personal experience with. :P
So, what does this mean for Makoto and Ifurita? Well, obviously they care deeply for one another. I'd call that love. And I prefer to believe that it is romantic love, and that there is a component of sexual desire involved. However, the simple truth is that OAV1 does not make this a certainty. The concern Makoto has for Ifurita could certainly be the kind of love one would have for a close friend - as could Ifurita's love in return. Whatever the case, I think it's very likely that Makoto and Ifurita are very aware of exactly what kind of love they have for one another. If the love is a friendship sort, and Makoto were to reveal to Ifurita that he had fallen in romantic love with Nanami/Shayla/Afura/whoever, she would likely not be jealous but, rather, happy for her dear friend Makoto's good fortune.
Though she'd probably be less understanding if Makoto were to hook up with Jinnai, I'm afraid, Xel. ;D
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Ok, for those of you who apparently lack vision, this is the entire story of Makoto's life, re-enacted in Smiley-faces! Enjoy!
:) Makoto: Hehehe I'm this stupid boring guy from earth who's apparently good at everything and I don't even have a girlfriend.
=,] Jinnai: And he's not even good looking!!!
Ok, getting back to the point, Makoto is taken to El-Hazard where he stands aroung and looks baffled for long periods of time.
:| Makoto: ...
Ok, so in the future, Jinnai takes over El-Hazard and re-names it Jinnai's World Of Disco. *the eye of god become a glittering strobe ball* Anyways, he's so crazy-ily cool and insane that you knew it was bound to happen eventually.
Meanwhile, Makoto starts balding, shrinking, and eventually begins to look like Danny Devito. :P
|D Makoto
Shayla has long since fallen out of love with him, and professed her love to Jinnai, but Jinnai was big-pimpin then, so she ent up marrying Groucho so she could stay close to her beloved.
And that's the end because I can't really remember why I began writing this stuff in the first place. Anyways, the point of the story is that Makoto dies, cold, alone, and walowing in his own filth, while Jinnai boogey's his way into fame with all of the ladies. The end. :P
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(http://www.el-hazardonline.net/El-Hazard/temp/rob/disco.JPG)??
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Elvis LIVES!
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So all documents of mine related to AW will be using "Quawool", "Allujah", and also "Parnosse".
Parnosse? Even I've never seen that one before... ^_^
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When I'm stuck for a spelling I often first seek aid of the subtitles to at least give me a basis. Thus:
(http://www.el-hazardonline.net/El-Hazard/temp/rob/base.JPG)
I probably could've left it as is, but I guess I just figured it'd lead to possibly trying to call him "Parn-ass" which is more maybe what Alielle thinks of him sometimes than a proper pronounciation. ;)
So the basis of "Parnasse" combined with an "o" for stronger guarentee it comes out like it does in the English dub. At least it isn't "Palnus", which I've seen used before. "Palnus". Heheheh...
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I probably could've left it as is, but I guess I just figured it'd lead to possibly trying to call him "Parn-ass" which is more maybe what Alielle thinks of him sometimes than a proper pronounciation. ;)
Please never say this again. I very nearly made a horrible joke involving just whose ass Alielle would find interesting.
I still say Ura's the only one for Makoto. ;D