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Author Topic: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL  (Read 3499 times)
Tsukasa
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« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2005, 07:07:03 PM »

Just only saw this today, a new series it'll be a great thing if it happans.  Anime of today is really nothing compared to things like EL-Hazard were.  With the sucess of Tenchi 3 it could happan.

Only thing I'd like to really see in it, is get Shayla and Nanami out of thier crushs of Makoto, Nanami might be more but Shayla all I think that is, is a crush nothing more, sure it may hurt but her getting over it would help her, and build her character more! Come on Shayla get over him! :)
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archaon
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« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2005, 08:08:38 PM »

This is a very interesting topic. Though the first OVA is, without doubt the best, I don't think AW was bad. Actually it was better than the second OVA(Were the hell were the Lamps???) for many reasons, not the least of which, its size(The first OVA was, in effect, a 9 episodes series.)
I recognize Ken Wolfe's "Earth" as the best piece of EH work on the web and a third OVA based on it appeals to me.
But I would really prefer to see something that none of us has ever thought to write. Have you ever attempted to read a book, then watch the movie that was based on it? Don't try it. It is very possible to feel disappointed, because a novel is interpreted differently for each of us, each reader creating unique images within their minds. Of course it's not bad to just borrow some ideas from here and there ;) ;) ;) ;)

What I certainly wouldn't like to see is a remake. We have enough official storylines out there, just barely keeping our sanity. NOT A REMAKE!!!

Since both OVA2 and AW have happened, they must conjure a continuation that ties everything together, leaving just an occasional minor mystery for fanfiction writers to work with; and not the black pits of AW -_-.

If wishes were fishes... |D |D |D

Anyway, although a third OVA is one of the best things we have to expect, I will not really believe in such luck until I see an official announcement. Sorry people, rumors can start wars and overthrown civilizations(tm).
« Last Edit: March 07, 2005, 08:09:09 PM by archaon » Logged
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« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2005, 06:10:21 PM »

... Hence the disclaimer at the start of the post, Archa'.  :P  It was just speculation from someone overhearing this or that.  But since it's been quite some time since this occured, it's probably nothing to get immediately excited about.
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ken_wolfe
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« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2005, 04:03:53 PM »

Hello. Mark Engels told me about the talk of a possible new El Hazard OVA that showed up on this forum.  I read through this and it has turned into a pretty interesting discussion.  I guess we all have our own wish lists of things we would love to see a new OVA focus on. My own feeling is that any sequel that does not focus on Makoto and Ifurita will be doomed to fail. This is really their story, which was made perfectly clear by the opening sequence of the very first OVA. The central mystery of what brought these two people together is what drove the early part of that series. It floundered a little bit and did not really come alive until Ifurita made her reappearance. At that point it became a story of one chained soul yearning to be free and another yearning to free her. And nobody who experienced the end of the last episode of OVA 1 could doubt that the relationship between these two is the core of the story and is what gave the original El Hazard series its power. They are the reason it's all there, the rest is just window-dressing. Certainly it was very fine window-dressing, the fantasy backdrop was simply breathtaking. But this story could have worked just as well in a well-constructed Medieval-Europe setting or a SF world more like the Alternative World, it would have just had a slightly different flavor. The sequels to date have given us a bit of the flavor of the original, but they failed to the degree that they ignored what gave the original series its meaning. OAV2 gave a glimpse of Makoto's desperation to find his soul-mate again, but the faux-Ifurita ultimately made it into a fraud. I can understand why no studio has tried to tackle this one properly, any sequel that deals with the two core characters would have to *start* with the ending of the first series, certainly one of the most beautiful and sublime moments in all anime. It's fine to write a story that starts there, converting the anime to prose transforms it more profoundly than  translating it into a different language. One can avoid comparison by hiding behind that transformation. But to make an anime series that picks up from the original and expects to live up to it, that is something entirely different. I doubt we will ever see it done.
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dooky
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« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2005, 10:56:05 AM »

(dooky is back! Shower him with MariMite plushies and unobtainable Disgaea merchandise!)

Hello all, and hello to Ken, long time no see. And what better way to reacquaint myself than by disagreeing thoroughly with what you've just said? ^_~

El-Hazard has always seemed to have a very diverse fandom, and I put that down to the fact that it's very multi-faceted. Everybody has their own reason for liking it: some people are attracted to the fantasy element, some like the romance, some like the drama, and some like the comedy. For me it was the latter. The comedic side of El-Hazard was what made me love the show, and for a long time I didn't really consider the Makoto/Ifurita relationship to be that interesting... it was just one of those elements of the show that didn't appeal to me. More recently, I've warmed to it somewhat, but neither character has ever really been a favourite of mine, so while I acknowledge their importance to the plot, they were never really a factor in my liking of the series.

One of the other things that made me like El-Hazard initially was the sheer scale of everything. Not only was there a huge, unexplored world as the setting, there was an impressive ensemble cast. Contrary to allegedly similar series such as Tenchi, the main character wasn't the only focus of romantic attention. Relationships were established that had no bearing on the Makoto/Ifurita situation at all, and everyone had their own story, their own little subplots. It was nice to see the whole cast of characters treated so well by the writers: the fact that they all had their own stories helped to establish them as real people, not just plot devices to drive the story along.

So while I see where you're coming from, I just think that your point of view seems to do the rest of the characters a disservice. I'd argue that your view of the series is only one of many ways of looking at it. Of course, it could be that I'm totally misinterpreting the series, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who didn't have that much interest in the Makoto/Ifurita thing upon first viewing.

It's worth mentioning that Wanderers dropped the relationship, and seems to be a very popular series in it's own right. It's also worth mentioning that I was far more disappointed by the lack of Fatora than I was by the absence of OVA-Iffy... although that, I suspect, is just a little quirk of mine ^_^

And you can put the general dodginess of OVA2 and AW down to many things, but the lack of Ifurita doesn't have to be one of them... although I can see how that would be a big disappointment for Ifurita fans. I'd blame lazy writing more than anything else, although I still maintain that AW could have been much better had circumstances been different, and that OVA2 episode 1 is (at least in its dub incarnation) El-Hazard's finest half-hour ^_~
« Last Edit: March 10, 2005, 10:56:56 AM by dooky » Logged

ken_wolfe
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« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2005, 01:51:30 PM »

Hi Dooky.

Certainly all the elements you mentioned contribute to how well the El Hazard series worked. It had a very imaginitive, carefully constructed backdrop that hinted at much more beyond what we were seeing. It had many moments of humor amongst the high drama of the major story arc. And very importantly it had a strong supporting cast who were all used to good effect. But notice I call them a *supporting* cast, because that is what they are. They are all weaved into the story and it would have been a lesser series without any of them. But could you imagine a sequel that focused just on any one of them? The further adventures of Nanami or Fatora or Jinnai? The story would be an unending quest for money, hot lesbian sex and power respectively. That might be enough for a half-episode subplot, but would not carry a series and would certainly not make it memorable. Since El Hazard came out there have certainly been many other fantasy anime series that had backdrops and ensemble casts as well-realized as this one. But they have largely been forgotten while El Hazard endures. We are still here talking about it ten years after it has been released. Why? A series doesn't get that sort of staying power with just some nice art, cute characters and a few laughs. There has to be something more. I submit that something is the story of Ifurita finding her humanity and Makoto fighting to free her. Had that element been missing from the original series, at the end of the last episode I probably would have smiled and said "yeah, that was okay", filed the laser disk away with all the rest (yes, it was that long ago) and probably never looked at it again for the next ten years. I would certainly not have gone out to buy the DVD box set, buy all the mediocre sequels in a desperate attempt to get back some of the story's magic or written novel-length fanfic for it. The story elements you mention are ones El Hazard shares with many lesser series, but it is the core story and the relationship between the main characters that sets this one apart.
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« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2005, 08:58:31 PM »

Quote
OAV2 gave a glimpse of Makoto's desperation to find his soul-mate again, but the faux-Ifurita ultimately made it into a fraud.

This, for the most part is what killed AW for me as well. You had the taunting little bit in the first episode, with Makoto's dream about Ifurita. And after that....... nothing. A bit of a disappointment, considering her mug was plastered all over the cover of the first video.  -_-

BTW, welcome to the board Ken.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2005, 08:58:54 PM by saucer » Logged


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ken_wolfe
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« Reply #52 on: March 14, 2005, 06:55:22 PM »

Thanks, Saucer.

What was really ridiculous about AW was that Ifurita figured prominently in the opening credit sequence and then never even showed up at all. That's what I call false advertising.

BTW, nice pic of Ifurita with the katana. Where's that from?

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dooky
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« Reply #53 on: March 14, 2005, 07:59:06 PM »

I always got the impression that AW would have featured Ifurita had they been able to finish the series the way they'd originally planned. If not, then why all the foreshadowing in the first episode. Granted, it's still a burn to Ifurita fans no matter what the reason, but I find it a little more acceptable than the use of Ifurita 2 in OVA2, which did seem to be a rather cynical reuse of an old character design. I'd have preferred it if they stuck to the different Demon God they used in the radio dramas, but there you go. At least they had the courtesy to give her a different voice.

And Ken, I can't really disagree with you about the Makoto/Ifurita thing, because I think it is a matter of personal taste. Their romance was obviously the pivotal factor in your love for the series, but it really wasn't in my case. I can't say why, other than that we probably look for different things in anime. I could well be in a minority with this opinion, but I know there are a few people around here who prefer Wanderers to the original, so I'm not the only one. I hope I didn't seem overly critical of your point of view- I was just pointing out, in my indelicate way, that different people like the series for different reasons. Which might be why it's proven so difficult to make an effective sequel.
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« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2005, 02:55:36 AM »

I guess in the absence of any news about the rumored El-Hazard continuation, we're talking about this? *chuckles* Cool....

Good to see you, Ken. I don't read much fanfiction any more, but I'll probably check out yours once I have some time. Good EH stuff is always welcome, heh.

As for me, while TMW (the first OAV series) was easily my favorite, it wasn't really because of the Makoto/Ifurita relationship. I liked both characters (until Shayla started to grow on me, Ifurita was actually my favorite, largely because of the remarkably believable change her character goes through, coupled with the "coolness" factor she has), though. And that's really it-- I liked El-Hazard for its characters (especially the comedic situations) and backstory (a pretty solid one, given how little time the show had to work with) more than anything else.

TAW was bad because it ruined both-- the once-loved cast mostly became caricatures of themselves, and by the time that problem started to recover the show had hit a pretty long series of plotholes that messed up the rest of it. I did like The Wanderers-- though a disappointment compared to the original, it wasn't bad by any means.

So yeah, that's about where I stand on things. Not that anyone cares; just to contribute to the discussion, heh.  -_-
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« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2005, 08:21:07 PM »

Quote
BTW, nice pic of Ifurita with the katana. Where's that from?


Domo.  ;D It's cropped from a page from a Hanaukyo Maid-tai-themed El-Hazard doujinshi called "Dengeki Inuoh." Featured here at EHOL in the doujinshi section. I kind of have a weird aversion to H-doujin of existing non-H series, but it's got some nice (non-H) Ifurita drawings.
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alwin
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« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2005, 01:15:06 PM »

i am kinda lost in this topic..but i got a feeling that this is somehow related to a new series of El hazard.. >_<
to that i say yeaaa

personally speaking, i prefered the original version instead of wanderers though... :p ...ahem perhaps someone should remove fatora's les's part. it's ..oh hell i dont know what to say. just remove it! LOL!!

focus on the story and character development instead of cute-ness pleassee :p
roger out.
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Helio Perroni Filho
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« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2005, 05:41:42 PM »

Quote
Good to see you, Ken. I don't read much fanfiction any more, but I'll probably check out yours once I have some time.


I strongly advise you to. El Hazard: Earth is such a beautiful work! I always go fanboy-mode when I talk about it -- it got mostly everything I ever wanted to see in an EH sequel, afterall. Then again, I share much of Ken's vision on El Hazard and what makes it great...

Quote
As for me, while TMW (the first OAV series) was easily my favorite, it wasn't really because of the Makoto/Ifurita relationship.


Although I've been aware of it for some time now, it still surprises me that not all EH fans -- perhaps not even most of us -- regard Makoto, Ifurita and the story of them as the series' defining point. Perhaps it has something to do with that "diversity" thing, which humans are rumoured to have? :P

The first time I watched The Magnificent World, it was very clear to me that the critical point for the series, the one that set it apart from the typical comedy / romance or fantasy anime, was the fact that its climax wasn't about whether the hero would prevent the vilain from destroying the world -- something we rarely, if ever, get any reason to doubt -- but whether we'd ever get to witness Makoto meeting Ifurita again. From a storytelling standpoint, it would be alright to end the series right after Gallus was defeated, with Ifurita disapearing in the Eye of God and Makoto promising to one day go to her rescue. This simple shift of focus, from the epic quest to save a world to the comparatively unimportant quest of two souls for each other, produced what is to this day my greatest experience as an anime fan: the anxiety that only those who hope for a certain outcome, but have no way to know if it will be achieved, can feel.

Fantasy tales tend to have predictable climaxes. We know the hero will confront the vilain; his victory may be costly, but not for a moment we doubt that evil will be conquered and peace returned to the land. Similarly, most comedy / romance stories, despite all their efforts to create romantic polygons, rarely suceed in making us doubt the "main couple" will end up together -- and rarely care to make a good case to convince us that this pairing is "the right one", and not any of the other possibilities. It is through the story of Makoto and Ifurita that El Hazard avoids these all too familiar pitfalls: not only it brings uncertainty to an otherwise predictable climax, but also, by showing how Makoto's and Ifurita's feelings evolve towards each other, it provides a romantic deepness that is absent even from many works that regard themselves as "romantic".

However, I do understand that, even without paying much attention to the obnoxious earthling and his cool android girlfriend, people can still like El Hazard. From the precarious balance that makes Jinnai a comic relief character and a dangerous vilain, to the careful scripting that allows Makoto to be more than the typical spineless school boy (anyone else noticed he only accepts to be dressed like a girl after he concludes that this is the best strategy to find a way back home?), the series does a skillful job of avoiding cliches all over. The supporting cast and their subplots are certainly amusing, and the art design does provide an original feeling to the setting. But I personally agree with Ken: if this was all there was to say about The Magnificent World, I would still regard Rayearth as my most beloved series, and barely remember El Hazard by now.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2005, 11:14:01 PM by xperroni » Logged

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« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2005, 07:07:02 PM »

Wot he sed.  

MJE

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« Reply #59 on: April 23, 2005, 10:42:35 PM »

The first time I watched TMW, I knew right away that Iffy and Makoto's "fated encounter" at the beginning was going to be the motivating factor for the entire series. It's obvious, the way Makoto spends most of the series trying to find Iffy and learn more about her. Then, when he does find her, he stops at nothing to save her from herself. It's intersting, this moebius strip of meetings and partings, which is why I find the whole series so fascinating.

I've had people argue with me that TMW revolves around Makoto solely and that his exploits are the driving factor of the series. And while... well "to each his own," I feel that people liek this are missing the deeper meaning behind TMW.
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