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Author Topic: the magnificent love-triangle world  (Read 9053 times)
Afura
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« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2004, 01:12:18 am »

Makoto, Makoto, for me put a ribbon on top of his head and give him as a present to anyone, but if i have to pick him for one of the girls, I choose Nanami She saw him first  ;). Shayla Get a better one!!! Ifurita, you are gonna live for ever and his is not, so replace love with chocolate!!
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Wayne
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« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2004, 01:31:55 am »

Wow, this is an old thread. I actually skimmed for awhile after I joined and still didn't see this one. *chuckles*

Interesting topic, though... especially some of the earlier discussion. I always figured Makoto and Ifurita were (in TMW, of course) some sort of "destined couple"... going back in time to wait ten millenia for someone is about the closest thing to love and devotion you're going to get. On the other hand... their feelings and "romance" blossomed during roughly two hours of actual time together, heh, so it's hard to say.

If there was going to be another El Hazard series (which is very unlikely, considering how unsuccessful the most recent ones were-- which is a shame, as the series had so much potential), I'd like it to feature a different romance (besides Ifurita and Rune, anyway). If it has Qawoor, then it'll probably be her (as much as I hate the character)-- Nanami, being the "childhood sweetheart," is automatically destined to lose unless the new El Hazard would be a dedicated shoujo series; Alielle doesn't lean that way, Afura never really seemed interested, and Shayla's mine. :D

Anyway, the whole reason I posted was that one of my favorite things about the original OAV series was the "love triangle"-- even though Ifurita winning was a foregone conclusion, it was cool to see a web of romantic interests going that was actually paced well and pretty realistic (especially compared to, say, Tenchi Muyo! or Love Hina's manga). And the fact that none of the other series played on that nearly as well-- despite having so many more episodes to work with-- was a travesty.

And, finally (yes, rant almost over ;D), that's a good point about Ifurita, and reminds me about something I discussed with some of my D&D players (using Humans and Elves rather than superpowered killer androids-- relationships wouldn't develop between them for the very pertinent and serious reason that their time together would be about a lunch hour in the immortal creature's lifespan... and why make a 'promise for forever' with someone who's just going to die?).
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rowan_a._seven
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« Reply #47 on: May 30, 2004, 06:22:55 pm »

Quote
If it has Qawoor, then it'll probably be her


I've thought about writing a Makoto & Kauru pairing in the past (albeit a dark, angsty one that probably would end with Makoto and Ifurita together), but when I rewatch "The Magnificent World" and am reminded of the beautiful bond between Makoto and Ifurita I hesitate, question whether or not I should 'taint' their relationship, and eventually dissuade myself until the lovely memory of Makoto and Ifurita begins to wane and the Makoto x Kauru thoughts resurface again.  

Still, my own reluctance notwithstanding, I agree with you.  Under current circumstances, I think that if Makoto ends up with anybody other than Ifurita, it'll probably be Kauru (however you spell her name).  While Nanami and Makoto would be cute, it just doesn't seem likely.  Perhaps in a parallel universe where the Shinonome gang wasn't dragged into El-Hazard, but in the OAV timeline?  As for Shayla, I simply have a hard time seeing them together as a serious couple.  What would they talk about over dinner, for example?  Maybe if they had more scenes together where they actually talk without the impending doom of the world hanging over them and with Shayla being herself this might be a little easier to picture.

Quote
and why make a 'promise for forever' with someone who's just going to die?


"Better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all."

While that may be the rational way of looking at it, from the perspective of those in love that "lunch hour" of time might just be worth it.  A few minutes of happiness in exchange for an eternity of sadness might look like a bad deal, but to actually be in love, feel love, experience love, share love, and just to love, even if it's only for a brief interlude in the grand scheme of things...perhaps it ultimately is a good deal.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2004, 06:33:24 pm by rowan_a._seven » Logged
Spanner
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« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2004, 08:52:31 am »

Immortals and love> One of the problems with characters like Ifurita and fictional races like elves is that the creators of those characters don't really seem to have any good concept of what it really means to be immortal. Basically, they end up being "just like us, except they live a really, really long time". If immortal elves really existed, they'd probably have mental processes a lot different from what we're used to, to accomodate the extended lifespan.

Anyway, as for Ifurita, I really don't think it matters too much that she's going to outlive Makoto. Other than the fact that she'll be sad after he's gone (for a while, anyway), it doesn't change the fact that they love each other now.

And, anyway, it was never stated that Ifurita was immortal. In fact, it's quite possible that she's nearing the end of her lifespan, as well. Certainly after ten thousand years of waiting, I'll bet her warranty has expired. ;D Perhaps it's Makoto who should be worrying about outliving Ifurita...

Qawoor and love> The trouble with Qawoor as a romantic interest for Makoto is that her love for him is completely unfocused. Yes, she loves him. But that love is very vague... Her love could be of the romantic sort, certainly, but her attitude could be interpreted as the love of a friend, or possibly even a sister. She strikes me as the sort who would be perfectly happy if Makoto were to strike it up with Nanami or Shayla or anyone else, so long as everyone was made happy by it. Even if Makoto DID choose her as a love interest, she'd see nothing wrong with sharing him around with anyone that wanted him. Just as long as it makes people happy.



Makoto: Qawoor, I choose you.

Qawoor: I'm so happy!

*Later*

Qawoor: Nanami, you look so sad and lonely. Would you like to sleep with my husband?

Nanami: O_o

Makoto: O_o



Tell me you can't see that happening... :P

That's one of the reasons why Qawoor is pretty much the ultimate fantasy girl. She has no real sense of personal pride, and if she has any personal desires, they ALWAYS take second place to everyone else's. You can use her and throw her away, and she won't really be unhappy as long as you're happy. Her happiness is entirely dependent on your happiness. It's a good thing for her that Makoto is not that kind of guy.
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« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2004, 09:01:44 am »

Quote
That's one of the reasons why Qawoor is pretty much the ultimate fantasy girl. She has no real sense of personal pride, and if she has any personal desires, they ALWAYS take second place to everyone else's. You can use her and throw her away, and she won't really be unhappy as long as you're happy. Her happiness is entirely dependent on your happiness.


Interesting hair, though.

dooky
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« Reply #50 on: June 06, 2004, 10:32:51 pm »

On love and immortality, let's not forget that when dealing with couples like Makoto & Ifurita or Parn & Deedlit (Record of Lodoss War) we're dealing with a uniquely Japanese concept. The concept that love exists in the moment, and neither the past nor future matters. New fans sometimes inquire as to why an a person in anime or manga will hook up with someone who's practically young enough to be their child. Because what matters is fulfilling that love and enjoying your time together, no matter how much pain or suffering their may be later. Because nothing hurts worse than unrequited love. Just look at Ueda and Rumi from Chobits, who face an age gap of almost 25 years. Or Noboyuki and Achika from Tenchi Muyo in Love 1, the later of whom knows she isn't even going to live to see her child grow up.

So that's what makes Makoto and Ifurita's relationship so endearing. Because, whether Ifurita dies a few years or a few millenia after Makoto, they have formed a bond with each other stronger than any other. And fulfilling that love is what's most important.
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« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2004, 02:36:46 am »

Hi,

long time fan of the series, first time poster here. I think Saucer hit the nail on the head with his post about having to look at it from the perspective of the people whoe wrote it. Vis a vis, a japanese perspective, meaning that however fleeting, love does not need to follow considerations like "life expectancy", or "fairness"

Anyway, a couple things I'd like to point out about the possibility of a followon for El hazard. Now, this is not me just being a hopeful fan, this is me being realistic about the industry. First off, El Hazard is considered (as we know) a fairly definative work of anime (the first series is what I'm talking about of course) and given the huge explosion of popularity in anime, I think that in the next few years we should not be surprised if we find out that a new OAV series for El Hazard comes out.

Okay, that said, what about the love triangle stuff?

*sigh*

I think it's pretty clear what happens if you've watched the first series... and read between the lines.
The final scene is the watercolor where Makoto and Ifurita are just about to kiss. Of course the logical anti argument is that they never actually show them kissing... so how do we know there were going to. And of course, this gets back to the whole "japanese" thing. Kissing in front of other people is pretty much unacceptable socially, and in fact you'll notice that just about every mainstream anime never shows two main characters actually kiss. (For example, Love Hina, Ranma, Slayers, ect ect)  Instead, they get the characters right up to the point of kissing and then freeze that moment. It's full of anticipation, and that's better than any kiss ever could be.

However, the question about immortality is a sticky one, how can they be together if he's gonna die, leaving her behind. After all, didn't the other Ifurita get left behind when her love interest dies in the second OAV?

Well, I submit that what we saw was a significantly different relationship develop there. The Ifurita of the second OAV was very much colder than the Ifurita we saw Makoto awake beneath Shinanomi HS. Try watching that scene, and you'll see that the humanlike traits were far more pronounced, where the Ifurita guarding the trigger of destruction was far colder and more mechanical.  Obviously something is very different about how Makoto's Ifurita and the other Ifurita have matured.  Someone postulated that perhaps she was becoming more human by being on earth. Well, to that I must point out that she was there for 10,000 years.. and she was still inhuman enough to have her demon god powers.

Okay, so, my theory... First off, I think that the powers each of the Earthlings got when they showed up in ElHazard have been changing as time went by. First off, Fujisawa, his strength increased when he dried out... and toward the end his power was visibly manifesting itself. Kinda spooky really, kinda makes you wonder what would happen over time if he was kept on a strict purification regime really. Then there is Nanami, initially, she could just see through the illusions of the Phantom tribe ( the scene with the female assassin at the hot springs)... and later on she could just step right into the vicinity of one of the illusions and break it. (Think of the throne room scene where Gallus had the three priestesses bedeviled)
So it could be argued that perhaps Makoto's own powers are in the process of growing and changing him. Perhaps there's more to the opening scene showing him flying that immediately meets the eye.

If this turned out to be the case, well.... I think that that'd take care of any lingering issues that might exist between him and Ifurita. They'd be a matched set, more or less.

But whether he just feels sympathy toward iffy... or true love.... well... I think that sorta answers itself... Makoto and her touched souls, laying bare all that she'd done, and he created a place in his life (even if it was only invented between them) so that she could have a possible past that didn't include being a killer.  That's more than just sympathy. That sort of sharing speaks a lot more eloquently then any love poem.

Anyway... just my take on the triangle. I think if they do a follow on though, that it'll include Iffy's return, and the fallout that follows.

Personally, I'd like to see them draw more from the mythos that Ifurita comes from (The Zoroastrian and indo iraq/iranian mythos). What'd be cool is if they had Makoto fall into the role of Saoshyant, who (in the Indo Iranian/Iraqi mythology) was the goddly human who leads the forces of good in the final battle which destroys the forces of evil and delivers the world. This would fit perfectly with an El Hazard follow on, one where Katsuhito does something stupid, like waking up yet another demongod, only this one is one who is hell bent on waking up all the rest of the demon gods on el hazard so that they can finally finish the holy wars they started a long time ago.
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Xel
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« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2004, 07:43:16 pm »

I told you. It's all about Makoto, and Jinnai, and awww yeah. *dubious hip thrusts*
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kajishima_masaki
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« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2004, 09:06:21 pm »

Hey Yo! I'm a long time fan but a first time poster. And I'd like to say that I'd love to see a 3rd OVA to El Hazard just as there is to Tenchi Muyo! But what I'd like to see in it, I'd like to see more of Fujisawa and Meeze, like where they left off before the story of Makoto.

You know I chose those two myself! I'm sick of people calling up and
saying I don't have a passion for music and that I have a face for radio.
What's that about?!
-LAZLOW
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Saucer
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« Reply #54 on: October 29, 2004, 11:57:31 pm »

Quote
Hey Yo! I'm a long time fan but a first time poster. And I'd like to say that I'd love to see a 3rd OVA to El Hazard just as there is to Tenchi Muyo! But what I'd like to see in it, I'd like to see more of Fujisawa and Meeze, like where they left off before the story of Makoto.

You know I chose those two myself! I'm sick of people calling up and
saying I don't have a passion for music and that I have a face for radio.
What's that about?!
-LAZLOW



Welcome to the board kajishima_masaki!
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