Who gets Makoto?

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

Isn't that basically what I just got through saying?  

Specifically, I was thinking of this middle chunk:

...Nobody, no matter how mad they are, would go to the trouble of creating such a life-like replica of humanity and then reverse-engineer her into a weapon. I'd say, it's fairly obvious that Ifurita is some advanced form of life. Possibly an even older race than the ancients of El Hazard, whose technology carried perhaps them so far that they became bio-mechanical lifeforms to project their longevity. Or, Ifurita could have been a powerful cyborg created for the purposes of rule and/or protection, such as Shion; the Cyborg Empress of Johji Manabe's Caravan Kidd. Ancient people's of El-Hazard could have found her "entombed" (more likely, in stasis)...

[theravenisdead]

I'd say, it's fairly obvious that Ifurita is some advanced form of life. Possibly an even older race than the ancients of El Hazard, whose technology carried perhaps them so far that they became bio-mechanical lifeforms to project their longevity. Or, Ifurita could have been a powerful cyborg created for the purposes of rule and/or protection, such as Shion; the Cyborg Empress of Johji Manabe's Caravan Kidd. Ancient people's of El-Hazard could have found her "entombed" (more likely, in stasis) just as Makoto did and placed the "obedience circuit" (more likely some sort of sub-routine) in her. Most likely after the fact. If Ifurita was indeed as benevolent and opposed to mass destruction as she seemed (as you can tell by how much she tried to resist the control of the obedience circuit), it's likely that she could be have been naive enough to be led down this path by people seeking the ultimate weapon to usurp their rivals.

You prove a good point It may be possible that Ifurita is another form of life, existing far longer and far earlier than the ancient El-Hazardians.

However I still keep my vote for a lifeform based on both the human genome and an implementation of nanomechanical enhancements, created by the Ancients.
A super-human life form that is, essentially, a living enbodyment of artifically-enhanced evolution. The beginning of man's journey to becoming a 100% artificial, non-natural lifeform. S\/\/33t

On the above note, one way to explain her attempts to resist obedience can be linked to a neural limitation that she wishes to override. Essentially Ifurita is aware of free will, and like any form of life is drawn to it. Unfortunately her programming prevents this from being assimilated into her concience. Kind of life a 'conflict of interest'.

On an unrelated topic, I also like to think that the whole theocracy of Mount Muldoon and their powers are the product of science rather than magic.

Like devices able to manipulate physical matter on a molecular level, such as the lamps each priestess has.

When it comes down to it, My view of the theocracy is it was formed shortly after the great ancient wars, and was actually a man-made organization formed for authoritarian purposes, involving devices which the follows simply could not understand, to show a form of physical proof that the beliefs of the founders were real.

Dun mind me, I like to rationalize everything I see

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

On an unrelated topic, I also like to think that the whole theocracy of Mount Muldoon and their powers are the product of science rather than magic.

Like devices able to manipulate physical matter on a molecular level, such as the lamps each priestess has.

When it comes down to it, My view of the theocracy is it was formed shortly after the great ancient wars, and was actually a man-made organization formed for authoritarian purposes, involving devices which the follows simply could not understand, to show a form of physical proof that the beliefs of the founders were real.

Dun mind me, I like to rationalize everything I see

No, actually that was an exact point I made in some other topic a long time ago.    I'd say we think very similarly!

http://www.el-hazardonline.net/cgi-bin/ehol/YaBB.pl?board=ehol;action=display;num=1046413327;start=0

Right around where it starts off "I see most of everything in El-Hazard is a figment of the technologal past.  And I do mean everything -- right down to the priestess's supposed holy artifacts, the lamps..."

(P.S. Don't argue any points I made in THAT thread; many of my opinions have changed lately... so we'll just talk about it if/when it comes up again   )

[Aya Mikage]

IFURITA OAV GETS MAKOTO!

When we combine all the El Hazard episodes according to their timelines, it would be like this:

    1. El Hazard : The Mysterious World
    2. El Hazard : The Magnificent World (OAV 1)
    3. El Hazard : The Magnificent World 2 (OAV 2)
    4. El Hazard : The Alternative World
    5. El Hazard : The Magnificent World (OAV 1) Ending

Am I right or wrong?
We saw the ending of the OAV 1, right? It ends everything. Ifurita gets Makoto. Not Shayla, not Nanami, not Rune, not Afura and not Kaour.

If Ifurita did not get Makoto, why did Makoto kept his promise to Ifu? Makoto had a lot of time with Shayla, Nanami and Kaour in the Alternative World. But Makoto's focus was on how he could unlock the secrets of the Eye of God to see Ifurita again..

Still confused? Better watch the El Hazard : The Magnificent World again, especially on the last scenes...

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

IFURITA OAV GETS MAKOTO!

Now now.  We all "know" that's how it's "supposed" to be.    We're allowed to dream a little, though.

When we combine all the El Hazard episodes according to their timelines, it would be like this:

    1. El Hazard : The Mysterious World

What is this?  I'm confused.

We saw the ending of the OAV 1, right? It ends everything. Ifurita gets Makoto. Not Shayla, not Nanami, not Rune, not Afura and not Kaour.

"Kaour".  That's a new one.    (I have an official set of site spellings I'm going to use based on English dubbing for consistency of my own documents; mine is the very rarely seen "Quawool".)

If Ifurita did not get Makoto, why did Makoto kept his promise to Ifu? Makoto had a lot of time with Shayla, Nanami and Kaour in the Alternative World. But Makoto's focus was on how he could unlock the secrets of the Eye of God to see Ifurita again..

Still confused? Better watch the El Hazard : The Magnificent World again, especially on the last scenes...

Like I said, we KNOW how it's "supposed" to be.  But even though many of us were touched by the whole Ifurita reunion ending, I know a lot of us think "Hey... that's not altogether fair for some of the other girls."  My dad always basically said that if you're not married to a girl, you have no absolute requirement to remain with her.

You know, was it ever defined that Makoto had a lustful interest in Ifurita?  I mean, he promised to return and perhaps even loved her, but was it really... *clobbered by Ifurita fans everywhere*

[washuchan]

that's more like
*clobbered, hacked, stabbed, chopped, stewed, and broiled by Ifurita fans everywhere*

since this topic is up  , I might as well put my latest strange thought...
it should be AFURA MANN, that's right, Wanderers Afura Mann who is "disliked" by some.

why?

well, they'll just look VERY kyoote  
and just like in Magnificent world where Makoto's good heart can break Ifurita's shell, I'm sure after their pairing,  Afura would be a newly transformed lady...maybe like Qawool

please note that I'm not accounting for responses from the other ladies of EH when this occurs

[Xel]

since this topic is up  , I might as well put my latest strange thought...
it should be AFURA MANN, that's right, Wanderers Afura Mann who is "disliked" by some.

why?

well, they'll just look VERY kyoote  
and just like in Magnificent world where Makoto's good heart can break Ifurita's shell, I'm sure after their pairing,  Afura would be a newly transformed lady...maybe like Qawool

please note that I'm not accounting for responses from the other ladies of EH when this occurs

Garg. I'd never wanna see Afura turn into Qawool.   Especially as she's already, well, Afura.

Really, Makoto and Afura might work, if Makoto wasn't so much a hapless weenie a lot of the time (I mean that in the most affectionate way... ) and if Afura wasn't quite so cool and taciturn. They could be all geeky and intellectual together. ^_^ I admit I like that sort of dynamic much more than the "I'll save you I love you we're meant to be together!" that occurs so often in anime... >_> But that's just me. Of course, you all know where I ultimately stand on this issue. >:B

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

They could be all geeky and intellectual together. ^_^

I never thought of it that way specifically.  That's actually a very good point.

[Aya Mikage]

Okey Rob,

Kaour is used in AXN so i thought it is really the genuine name of Quawool...

I also thought that Ifurita's name was Iphreeta..

I saw a site using Kaour instead of Quawool --> I was quite convinced by that so, sorry if Im mistaken..

Just correct me if im wrong, okey?  

I'll be AYA MIKAGE from now on...

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

Actually, I think "Quawool" was invented locally.  I was actually using "Qawool" up until not too long ago.  (Except in plain English, a Q without a U becomes a "K" sound)

I've come to standardize Quawool for use at THIS site because it's the English pronounciation used in the dub.  Also a common name you'll find is "Arjah".  What's funny is that isn't even correct for the "Engrish" Japanese pronounciation of his name.  The name is pronounced "Ah-ru-jah" in Japanese, so I'd say "Arujah" would be a closer fit.  But even so, I've standardized it as "Allujah" because that's how they said it in English.

So all documents of mine related to AW will be using "Quawool", "Allujah", and also "Parnosse".

But I wasn't trying to insult your spelling skills or anything.  Quawool ... or Qawool ... or Qawoor ... or Kauru... or ... yeah.  A lot of spellings on that one.  

[Saucer]

You know, was it ever defined that Makoto had a lustful interest in Ifurita?  I mean, he promised to return and perhaps even loved her, but was it really... *clobbered by Ifurita fans everywhere*

Yes, but relationships aren't all about sex.

[Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)]

No, but my dad once told me that sooner or later that's what it all really comes down to.  I mean, no, you're not in it just for sex, that's a pretty hollow existence.  But the truest reason for finding a mate is just a cover-up for that little "reproducing the species so it survives" bit that we're all involved in at some low level.    Could you seriously love someone intimately if you weren't interested at all in that part of it?  I've noticed a large part of our psychology is built on sexual and aggressive behavior.  Wait, there's a particular famous psychologist I must be a fan of unknowningly...    That would most definitely fit in to why there's so much HENTAI doujinshi as opposed to the other type.


Har.  Anyway.  Makoto+Ifurita.  If Makoto doesn't find some physical level of bonding with Ifurita, then any "love" is merely in the type that all humans ought to have for each other; a deep caring for her plight and a grand respect for her sacrifice.  Let's say Makoto is at least the first real friend she's ever had.  This doesn't necessarily say he's actually in a "relationship" per se.  Makoto could be the first to really care about her, but nothing in the entire OAV really solidifies that he's actually really in love with her.  So what if he stands around and thinks of her?  Wouldn't you do that if say a sibling or a close friend was off listening to the commands of a lunatic and forced to kill people?  It must be hell to see the real good side of a person (Makoto finds this in the mind link) and then realize they're being forced to do horrible things against their will.

[Tim needs time to work it out]

Rob - "Wait, there's a particular famous psychologist I must be a fan of unknowningly..."

You are referring to Dr. Sigmond Freud.

Freud, being the man he is, stated that most of our life is based around sexual pleasure.

Oral pleasure, the first stage, happens around birth.  Sucking on a thumb, a blanket, or another object gives them this great feeling, which could explain why the baby enjoys being with the mother.

Anal pleasure, the second stage, happens during potty training.  Teaching them that they are supposed to go sometime (and not in their pants).  The child could hold it in to have a mix of pleasure and pain (which, he would say, makes the person very clean and "anal retentive") or just let it out and smear it all over (making the person a messy and reflective one).

During most of childhood, there is a latent stage where there is no pleasure anywhere.

The final stage is probably the most obvious, the genital stage.

Taking a step further, he even said that some objects represented organs.  Anything elongated (sticks, rods) would represent the male sex organ.  Anything that has an interior (fridges, boxes, ovens) would represent the female sex organ.

With a sense of irony, Freud was a cigar smoker.  He simply said, "Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar."


His philosophy was not without controversey.  Karen Horney disregarded him because he tended to refer to women as "defective men" or just not mention them altogether.  Freud said that women suffer from "penis envy" because they lack it.  Horney said that men have "womb envy" because they don't have breasts or the ability to bear children.

[Spanner]

Ah, Freud. What a wacky guy. Truth is, he said all KINDS of things that most psychologists do not acknowledge today, most of which is about sex. He was a great pioneer in the field of psychology, and his introduction of the theory of the subconscious totally revolutionized the field. But strictly Freudian psychology is seldom practiced today. (And when it is, it is frequently frowned upon by other psychologists.)

As for me, yeah, I think that what we think of as "romantic" love DOES require a sexual component (though, not necessarily a reproductive component, even if that is what is biologically intended). Really, I tend to be of the school of thought that "love is love is love" (possibly not what Dooky intended by his avatar quote ). At its core, there's no difference between the love you feel for a parent, or the love you feel for a friend, or the love you feel for a lover, or even the love that you feel for a pet. Certainly there are degrees to it - you might love your brother more than you love your best friend, or your cat - but it all boils down to the same kind of thing. If you love someone, you have an affection for them, you wish to be near them, you are concerned for their well-being, and so on.

When it comes to differentiating between the different kinds of love, you add additional components that "flavor" the love in different ways. It's certainly possible to desire to have sex with someone that you do not love. It is also possible to love someone that you do not desire to have sex with. But a person that you love and desire have sex with is a lover (or a potential lover), and so the love is referred to as romantic.

At least, this is what I believe, for now. It is certainly true that romantic love is not a subject that I have an overwhelming amount of personal experience with.

So, what does this mean for Makoto and Ifurita? Well, obviously they care deeply for one another. I'd call that love. And I prefer to believe that it is romantic love, and that there is a component of sexual desire involved. However, the simple truth is that OAV1 does not make this a certainty. The concern Makoto has for Ifurita could certainly be the kind of love one would have for a close friend - as could Ifurita's love in return. Whatever the case, I think it's very likely that Makoto and Ifurita are very aware of exactly what kind of love they have for one another. If the love is a friendship sort, and Makoto were to reveal to Ifurita that he had fallen in romantic love with Nanami/Shayla/Afura/whoever, she would likely not be jealous but, rather, happy for her dear friend Makoto's good fortune.

Though she'd probably be less understanding if Makoto were to hook up with Jinnai, I'm afraid, Xel.

[jewel_of_roshtaria]

Ok, for those of you who apparently lack vision, this is the entire story of Makoto's life, re-enacted in Smiley-faces! Enjoy!

Makoto: Hehehe I'm this stupid boring guy from earth who's apparently good at everything and I don't even have a girlfriend.
Jinnai: And he's not even good looking!!!
Ok, getting back to the point, Makoto is taken to El-Hazard where he stands aroung and looks baffled for long periods of time.
:| Makoto: ...
Ok, so in the future, Jinnai takes over El-Hazard and re-names it Jinnai's World Of Disco. *the eye of god become a glittering strobe ball* Anyways, he's so crazy-ily cool and insane that you knew it was bound to happen eventually.
Meanwhile, Makoto starts balding, shrinking, and eventually begins to look like Danny Devito.  
|D Makoto
Shayla has long since fallen out of love with him, and professed her love to Jinnai, but Jinnai was big-pimpin then, so she ent up marrying Groucho so she could stay close to her beloved.

And that's the end because I can't really remember why I began writing this stuff in the first place. Anyways, the point of the story is that Makoto dies, cold, alone, and walowing in his own filth, while Jinnai boogey's his way into fame with all of the ladies. The end.