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Author Topic: Just a humble n00b... ^_^  (Read 7848 times)
Xel
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« on: May 29, 2003, 10:26:15 pm »

Greetings! *waves frenetically* I've been hovering about for the past couple days and finally got around to posting... I'm Xel!

If you're on the EH ML, you're no doubt familiar with (and sick of  :P) me and my overwhelming Jinnai fanaticism. *wink* I can't help it... the man's brilliant! (I'm disappointed because there's no "maniacal" smiley available for my frequent use...  ;D)

Anyway, it's great to be here... I suppose I'll start up my first topic for discussion right now, then!

Alrighty. I ask to you, the humble people of EH Online... Jinnai and Diva: what is your take on their relationship? Nothing there? Purely sexual? Love somewhere? One-sided? Mutual? Don't wanna think about it?  ;D  Taking into consideration, of course, matters like the infamous Alternative World ordeal, Jinnai's obsession with Makoto (not insinuating anything here... well, not really... this time.), et cetera, what's YOUR standpoint? ^_~

*excitedly awaits the board's replies~!*
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2003, 11:31:43 pm »

Jinnai acts like a big dictator Hitlini-type, but he's really just a shy little boy. When Diva tries to make babies (not doubt lots of them in little tiny white eggs) with him, he freaks out like a tool. If you're a straight male between the ages of 12 and 95, and you have a woman like Diva breathing down your neck, are you going to freak out and cry? NO! How can someone with so much ambition be so naive? One day Jinnai will wake up and try hump Diva's leg and she'll be like "Naw, mating season is over. I just rogered a couple grasshoppers. Try next year kid."

Heh heh, no seriously. Jinnai likes Diva, he just won't admit it. One day they'll have a romantic scene and Diva will get captured by a giant spider and cacooned. Jinnai will be like "NOOOO!!! DIVA!" and like rescue her and junk. Yup. Then they'll pork. For sure.
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2003, 11:01:52 am »

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Jinnai acts like a big dictator Hitlini-type, but he's really just a shy little boy.




LOL Hitlini ^_^
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2003, 02:21:17 pm »

I saw the reference too.  ;)

Anyway...

Quote
Greetings! *waves frenetically* I've been hovering about for the past couple days and finally got around to posting... I'm Xel!

If you're on the EH ML, you're no doubt familiar with (and sick of  ) me and my overwhelming Jinnai fanaticism. *wink* I can't help it... the man's brilliant!


I was forewarned as such by Mark Engels.  ;)


Quote
(I'm disappointed because there's no "maniacal" smiley available for my frequent use...  )


I should one day totally replace the smilies... or get someone to do it for me maybe.  ;)  The little 15x15 space, while strictly not required, isn't good to get too far over either.  But if someone could make an El-Hazard theme set, that'd be spiffy.


Quote
Alrighty. I ask to you, the humble people of EH Online... Jinnai and Diva: what is your take on their relationship?


This one's hard to answer, but I'm thinking back to about 2 years ago when I was 18 (which, AFAIK, Jinnai is 18 by Alternative World, so the Memories book said.)

I think by then I wouldn't have refused a woman outright.  And that's the thoughts of most males.  Why would he react the way he did?  :P  

Well, until I had a girlfriend, I know that a woman's body and all things that function "under the hood" generally frightened me strictly by lack of knowledge and experience.  Now, we know that Jinnai is driven mostly by power.  His primary goal was to become "leader" of his high school and pretty much be in control.  I DON'T think this vision included women.  From what I've heard, you've used this to your leverage.  :P

But by default I don't think this says anything directly about him.  He's an angry fellow as long as things aren't going his way.  Women probably didn't want to step near him, probably seeing him as a freak.  That doesn't mean he's not interested.  At the same time, however, to work with women could require comprimising his power.  A relationship is, after all, all about giving and receiving, and probably any power he had would have to be slightly split off to the other end.

But aside from all that business, let me go back to my thoughts of a "pre-experience" adolcent male.  Women were interesting, but in my head I was just afraid of going anywhere in that direction by ignorance.  I had told my first girlfriend that I was inexperienced and therefore very unsure what to do.  Virtually I would let her call shots as she was ready to do whatever.  The general order followed that I'd be nervous as hell whenever she did follow through on that and tried to do something.  This type of fear certainly doesn't exist for all guys, many of which can just boast and take action as they will with their own freedom.  But perhaps it existed for Jinnai.  As "big" as he was on-stage, Diva and her egg business terrified him simply because he'd never been involved with any woman on any level, let alone a sexual one.  I think I probably would've reacted the same if said first girlfriend had wanted to jump on me immediately.  

So as terrified as I might've been to do anything I did, in the end I found myself confident and wouldn't have done it differently.  This is one possible outcome for Jinnai after the "Diva Incident".  Another outcome might be Jinnai feeling totally violated, especially since she effectively exerted power over him, which would hurt his ego worst of all.  Under that path, I imagine a period of grief/depression until he collects himself, then he might return in a rage, determined to exercise his own powers to try to reclaim control of all operations, possibly looking down upon Diva... maybe even to put himself in trouble.  (Since Diva is technically the top command whether he likes it or not, and obviously the Bugrom listen to her over him, as proven by the grab 'n' drag.)



Now, with all given data, I'd concider it purely sexual based on either outcome; so far nothing has clearly indicated to me that they had anymore more than friendly cooperation.  But I'm not invalidating it, either.  Note that Diva has very little screentime in ANY series.  A little more in Wanderers, but definitely not a lot of apperance in OAV/OAV2/AW, which is what we're concerned with.  Hell, she was only featured in episode 1 and 2 of OAV2 for a few minutes collectively!  So if there was anything going on between the two of them, it's simply not publically known.  The only thing we know for sure is that they hadn't gotten into any sexual matters up until that point.
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2003, 02:50:59 pm »

I haven't read Rob's post but I'm sure he's mentioned it... In Alternate World (Episode 1), Jinnay didn't look particularly pleased when he heard that Diva was going to make more eggs with him :P

I think Jinnai just likes Diva because she believes everything he says and worships him as if he were an idol or a person of high authority and that's exactly what Jinnai wants... All he ever wants.

Besides, Diva sees him more as a Well-Respected-Man-For-A-Mission and not a guy which she'd have the guts to go up and say "I WANT YOU!"... She doesn't even seem to show the slightest hint of it.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2003, 02:54:11 pm by panicpaladin » Logged
Xel
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2003, 05:37:50 pm »

Quote
 His primary goal was to become "leader" of his high school and pretty much be in control.  I DON'T think this vision included women.  From what I've heard, you've used this to your leverage.  :P


...Eheh. *coughs and nudges her avatar* You know me too well already. ^^;

Damn you, Mark Engels! You're not supposed to warn them! Daaaaamn yoooooouu....!

Quote
I think Jinnai just likes Diva because she believes everything he says and worships him as if he were an idol or a person of high authority and that's exactly what Jinnai wants... All he ever wants.

Besides, Diva sees him more as a Well-Respected-Man-For-A-Mission and not a guy which she'd have the guts to go up and say "I WANT YOU!"... She doesn't even seem to show the slightest hint of it.


*quite pleased at the responses this has gotten* o_o Hmm... well, all of these takes on it are really interesting... Saucer's in particular. XD I'm not really sure where I stand on it myself... though for what it's worth, I find it extremely interesting that in virtually every bit of official art in which those two are together, they're almost always very, erm... physical with one another. >_>; And this is prior to Alternative World as well (I say this because I know that the overall characterization of ep 13 is considered highly suspect by some in these parts...  :P).

On a wholly unrelated note, I am overjoyed to learn that Minnesota is receiving its very own con! Not until sometime 2004, sure, but still! If you live in the area, come on down...  ;D
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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2003, 05:55:41 pm »



I'm sure we're all aware.  :P  (If someone isn't, then you should be ;) ) And what, you liked Saucer's better because it was concise? ;p
« Last Edit: May 30, 2003, 05:59:01 pm by rob_jinnai » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2003, 06:07:01 pm »

Quote


On a wholly unrelated note, I am overjoyed to learn that Minnesota is receiving its very own con! Not until sometime 2004, sure, but still! If you live in the area, come on down...  ;D


Really? I live in Minnesota! Near the Twin Cities. Is there a website or anything like that I can visit to learn more?

On the subject of Jinnai/Diva, I think they do leave it open to a lot of interpretation. I, for one, though, don't really think that Jinnai's ready for romance. As Rob pointed out, love requires give and take - and Jinnai's not really interested in anything but taking at the moment. I also rather get the impression that he's rather incredibly emotionally immature. And not just in matters of love.

I think that Diva might be amenable to the idea, though. She sure seemed to get pretty gung-ho over the "lay some eggs" idea when Jinnai suggested it. ^_^
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Xel
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2003, 06:24:21 pm »

Wow, Spanner... o_o Small world, eh? Sadly, I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it... if I manage to dig it up I'll let you know.

And nope, Rob... not because it was concise. I like long, rambling posts and theories; makes me feel more at home.  :P No, it was definitely the wording. Freaks out like a tool, indeed. XD
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2003, 06:44:40 pm »

Well, good, cause ... they're pretty much all I write.  XD  I have at least two posts on here that are started off with a novel post.  O_o
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2003, 07:44:25 pm »

Quote

*quite pleased at the responses this has gotten* o_o Hmm... well, all of these takes on it are really interesting... Saucer's in particular. XD

Heh heh, I was in a mood to be random so I just started throwing funnies out there (knew Kathy and Rob would get "Hitlini"). In all seriousness though, Jinnai is sprung for Diva and there's no denying it. As the pics that Rob posted prove. The one on the right always got me. Talk about getting right to the point.  ;D
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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2003, 08:01:58 pm »

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I should one day totally replace the smilies... or get someone to do it for me maybe.    The little 15x15 space, while strictly not required, isn't good to get too far over either.  But if someone could make an El-Hazard theme set, that'd be spiffy.

Allrighty! That seems to be a task for me, I guess...
But I need time and some nice and suitable images  ;)

To the topic: The case of Janni and Diva is typical for anime. There is always such things. The characters are that kind of specified in one way that they have problems with anything off their specification. It's all the view of the japanese. Every char stands for something else. In animes it is  shown in an extreme and mostly funny way.

(the funniest thing about it is that it's almost all about women!)
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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2003, 08:39:48 pm »

Depends on which version.  In the Wanderers continuity Jinnai and Diva are in love…with the idea of being evil.  Diva acts much more like a princess than a queen in Wanderers and seems infatuated with evil or at the very least the really fun kind of evil that you can brag about.  Jinnai, likewise, is more of a schemer than a strategist and seems more interested in proving his superiority to all than conquering the world, though the latter is a means of accomplishing the former.  Diva’s main concern appears to be her own amusement and sense of pleasure while Jinnai comes across as caring almost exclusively about himself, hence his ability to commit acts of great cruelty to others seemingly without a second thought, though he has also grown to care about Groucho, TV-Ifurita, and (to a certain extent) Makoto in the twisted way that Makoto gives his life meaning.  Should either of them mature a bit I could see a friendship and perhaps a romance blooming since they share similar interests and goals if not motivations, but right now they are mostly allies of choice on Diva’s part and allies of necessity from Jinnai’s perspective since Diva is still effectively Jinnai’s boss with the final say on their plans.  Jinnai needs Diva’s consent to lead the Bugrom Empire, but Diva can still do whatever suits her fancies.

As for OAV continuity, that’s a bit trickier.  For one thing, Jinnai and Diva’s spheres of authority are less clear-cut.  While the Bugrom are more loyal to their queen than general, with the arguable exception of Groucho, Diva no longer completely outranks Jinnai since she believes he is a Messenger from God that will lead the Bugrom to victory.  On at least one occasion her faith causes her to submit to Jinnai on a matter she disagrees with, and Jinnai is not as dependent on Diva’s goodwill as his Wanderers counterpart.  He has the leeway to argue with Diva, though I’m confident that Jinnai is smart enough not to irritate her to such an extent as to cause a permanent rift between them.

OAV Diva is also much more of a matriarch, with her primary concern being the Hive rather than whatever she finds enjoyable.  Jinnai’s main concern, on the other hand, is the acquisition of power and global conquest.  Whereas Wanderers Jinnai didn’t seem to care about most people one way or another except as a means to an end in the short term, OAV Jinnai takes more notice of others and how they can be useful to him in both the short term and long term.  He’s insulting but not cruel and possesses a degree of restraint and self-control lacking in his Wanderers version.  He is also, as previously mentioned, a strategist and is perfectly willing to use every tool available unlike Wanderers Jinnai who prefers to do things in such-and-such a fashion.  When OAV Jinnai had a gigantic army with the potential to conquer the world he used it in an attempt to do just that, while Wanderers Jinnai who has an army with the potential to conquer the world uses it to enact evil schemes instead.

Regardless, Diva does treat Jinnai as a human being and relative equal in the OAV series.  She’s not so reverent of him that she won’t voice her doubts and concerns when she has them though she will still follow him.  Jinnai, likewise, affords her a level of gentleness and civility he doesn’t seem to give anyone else.  Unlike his exertion of authority over the Bugrom, with Diva he tries to tread softly when he wants her to do something except for the occasions where she’s not so forthcoming and he has to be more direct and commanding to get what he wants.

Up until Diva added the new “dynamic” to their relationship in the Alternative World, I imagine that they were at the very least fond of each other.  Jinnai didn’t appear displeased to be partnered with her, and Diva seemed interested in him as more than an agent of prophecy, engaging him in conversation and a bit of recreation.  However, the Alternative World would seem to indicate that, while Diva doesn’t necessarily love Jinnai, she would prefer mating with him to mating with one of her subject Bugrom.  I think Diva is trying to become closer to Jinnai, possibly because in him she sees somebody whom she can have a real relationship with and respect unlike her subjects who all have to obey her and don’t seem to have as strong a sense of self as the Queen.  

Jinnai probably reacted with such uncertainty and panic for the reasons Rob described.  If the brief Valentine flashback in the Wanderers is any indication, Jinnai doesn’t seem to have had much luck in the romance department and likely wrote off “love” in the dating sense as unnecessary and trivial, pursuing power and control rather than women.  Diva’s sudden “amorous” intentions almost certainly caught him off guard, and fornication, particularly with an insect woman, is something that he would not be able to be in control of since he, almost beyond a doubt, has no experience in the area.  If a beautiful woman suddenly jumped me, even if I already knew her, I’d likely panic as well since it’s really not something I’d be comfortable with right away.

This incident has the possibility of bringing Jinnai and Diva closer together or driving them farther apart, though I doubt the latter.  Since Diva was the one to initiate it, she likely wouldn’t have very many regrets so long as reproduction succeeds, and Jinnai is smart enough to know that he shouldn’t alienate Diva too much.  Besides, he has in the past displayed a willingness to endure unpleasantries in order to defeat his “eternal rival”.  I think if he finds it impossible to derive any true pleasure from intimacy with Diva that he will rationalize it as being necessary to triumphing over Makoto.

What I believe is the case now is that Diva and Jinnai are somewhat close and occupy a fuzzy area among allies, friends, and lovers.  They’re a little of each right now.  However, if the current weakened state of the Hive should make Diva lonely or bored and if Jinnai stops focusing on his work and Makoto obsession long enough to realize how alone he is on El-Hazard, I could imagine their relationship gradually developing into a form of love though I doubt it would ever be passionate or full-fledged except perhaps at the times of their deaths.

*Note:  The conclusions and beliefs in the text you just read are opinion.  :)
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« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2003, 09:37:11 am »

Quote
*Note:  The conclusions and beliefs in the text you just read are opinion.


Unless you're a writer for the series, how can it be anything else? :P

Anyway, I read that through, and I must admit, very nicely put together.

With the way they're past is wired then, I can safely say that no matter how Jinnai reacts at first to the entire incident, he'll come around again eventually... probably.  Although sex has been known to change the way people feel about each other, for better or worse.  That alone is something we can't drop from concideration either.
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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2003, 09:58:39 pm »

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Jinnai and Diva: what is your take on their relationship?

Whatever it is, it ain't a healthy relationship.

Jinnai scared the puddin' out of Deva in the first OVA when he decided to revive Ifurita, and Deva scared the puddin' out of him in Alt World ep 13 when she you-know-what.

And Deva became surprisingly submissive, surprisingly quickly, for the queen of an alien empire.  She was serving Jinnai wine in OVA1, and tea in the Wanderers.  She didn't bat an eye when Jinnai spilled his tea, or when he held out his empty glass and demanded more from her.

As far as the physical side of things...  Well, Deva is quite the looker.  If anyone could seduce someone as single-minded as Jinnai, she could.  But the last part of Ken Wolfe's "Earth" fan fiction pretty much ruined Jinnai/Deva pairings for me  :P
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