16

El-Hazard Online / Re: The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

« on: July 19, 2009, 09:20:25 pm »

Sorry about that. I didn't intend to come across so harshly, and rereading my post I do sound more condescending than I expected. What I meant by decent is that your writing is on par with what I expect from fan fiction I'm willing to read. It's not great, it's not bad, but it gets the job done with some particularly good spots here and there and it's definitely better than "barely passing" as you put it. And I do like your dialogue. It's one of the story's greatest strengths. The descriptive writing, on the other hand, isn't as good in my opinion and parts of your writing style came across as somewhat rough to me, which is why the overall mark is more mixed.

As for why my story review seems less enthusiastic than my chapter reviews, I tried (perhaps too hard) to step back, dampen my excitement, and focus more on technical merits.  And when I attempt to be seriously analytical, I often come across as restrained and understated because I'm using a higher standard.  Personally, I think this is a pretty good story and you did a good job telling it.  It's not on my top 10 list, but I enjoyed reading it and it has some notably creative ideas.  My critical feedback was meant to be constructive, and if I focused  more on the negatives than on the positives in my last post it's because I've already largely told you what I liked in the chapter reviews and didn't see the need to repeat myself.    

I'm probably going to drop Kyon narration for the sequel.

I thought that it added to this fanfic - and, in fact, there were moments when I hoped that the Kyon narration, along with my handling of Haruhi and Jinnai, would make this fanfic a memorable top 10 classic for both you and Spanner... but in retrospect, the Kyon narration probably took away from it.

For one, it was simply impossible to do 20 chapters of consistently whiney narration voice, while also keeping the fanfic energetic and exciting - simply put, a whiney narration voice would ruin the mood for a lot of scenes in this fanfic. For Spanner, this perhaps translated to Kyon not being whiney enough.

For two, Kyon narration limited what I could do with descriptive writing - if I had went into highly detailed descriptive writing with a Kyon narration voice it would have been a case of Kyon being wildly out of character, I felt. Hence, given how familiar you are with El Hazard, I kind of hoped that your own imagination and memory of the anime would smoothly fill in the gaps for you and make lack of descriptive writing a non-factor. I guess it didn't. So for you, Rowan, this translated to the descriptive writing not being what you wanted.

So, you see, I hope, the Catch-22 that having a Kyon narration voice put me into. It works in the Haruhi anime because you have the animation visuals and hence Kyon narration is simply plot exposition - but with a fanfic, it's a major task since the role of 'descriptive writing' falls to narrator Kyon.

It's regrettable because I usually enjoyed using the Kyon narration voice - I thought that it would be a lot of fun, and make this fanfic really stand out in a good way for you and Spanner -  but in reading the constructive criticisms of both you and Spanner, I can see that it weakened this fanfic for both of you.

Oh well.

Apology accepted, anyway.

17

El-Hazard Online / Re: The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

« on: July 19, 2009, 06:19:56 pm »

General Writing Quality

Decent. You know how to use proper grammar and spelling and create effective sentences, which is very important. Your writing style also conveyed the fun and exciting nature of your story which is a commendable accomplishment because it can be a sad thing when a good story is marred beyond enjoyment by poor writing. However, I also feel that your story was much stronger than the writing, and your occasional repetitive use of words and choice of words had me scratching my head at times. So...you have the basics down but there's still room for improvement.

Ouch

I know that I'm not a professional writer or even close to that level of refinement, but I honestly have to say that when I've had previous fanfics reviewed in the past, I got much more positive feedback for general writing quality than this.

I also don't know what to make of this - in your review for Chapter 7 you talked about liking my dialogue, but that I was a bit too wordy.

And now... my writing (and hence dialogue) is just decent and I'm not wordy enough?

When I think "decent", I think "bare pass" - like a D- in school. Also, the quality chain tends to go from...

Decent to Pretty Good to Good to Very Good to Excellent

Overall, I interpret your feedback as...

B-/C+, B, B, and D-  

Not exactly my idea of a good report card.


It's also a bit worrisome in that I spent a great deal of time making use of an on-line thesaurus while writing this to help ensure that my word choice was not repetitive.

At some level, I almost feel like I'm being damned with feint praise here. Your feedback for the story as a whole is certainly far less enthusiastic than it was for earlier chapters... or really, anything up to Chapter 12.

It makes me wonder if you (and perhaps Spanner as well) felt that the story was simply too long for its own good. If so, I certainly made the right choice in not dragging out the quest for Itsuki's plant/showing the Bugrom Empire conquering nation after nation before Haruhi FINALLY learned the truth.


Big thanks for taking the time to provide additional feedback, in any event.

18

El-Hazard Online / Re: The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

« on: July 17, 2009, 06:21:55 pm »

Spanner - Your overall take on Chapter 20, and the story as a whole, was more or less what I had expected and hoped for.

...with one exception that I'll get to in a bit.

I want to thank you for all of your inspired advice. Clearly, you've been a fanfic writer and/or reader much longer and/or more frequently than I have, and as such, I've learned a lot from your constructive criticisms, and I appreciate that a lot.

I also appreciate you clarifying how you don't view a predictable ending as necessarily being a bad ending. That's good to know given how the fanfic ended.

On Prince Randorm - he actually showed up in the Chapter 17 peace negotiations; so Chapter 6 wasn't his only appearance. Also, there's a good chance I'll be using him more in future fanfics. He's actually based off of a cartoon character from the 80s that I liked a lot - King Randor from the He-Man and the Masters of the Universe cartoon. Not sure if you're familiar with that old cartoon or not.

One of the other people who gave me feedback on this story told me that he loved the bolding and italicizing that I gave to much of Jinnai's dialogue. However, he didn't seem to care all that much about it as it pertained to other characters.

With that in mind - would you be cool with a sequel where I continued the bolding and italicizing for Jinnai and Haruhi alone - cutting it out for all other dialogue and narration? Would you like that better you think?


Some scenes apparently came off better than I thought (such as Haruhi introducing Jinnai to Kyon, which I actually wrote just because I felt I needed to), while what I actually thought would be a very well-received final twist in how the person who set this story all in motion was the son of Haruhi and Jinnai didn't come off that well (although I now understand why).

As for your questions pertaining to Haruki...

1. He gave Itsuki and Yuki some basic background information on El Hazard - such as info on the most important places there. He also gave them info on his father. That was it, though. I get your points on how the son of Haruhi and Jinnai would certainly be a person who tended to thrown caution to the wind (since Haruhi and Jinnai are both, in their own respective ways, people who tend to throw caution to the wind - or, at the very least, Jinnai is "excitingly bold!" as Diva says).


2. I'm going to admit that I haven't decided yet who Haruki's arch-foe will be. It might be another offspring of one popular El Hazard character with another popular Haruhi character, or it might be an entirely original fan creation. I'm mostly wondering if I should make it a son or daughter of Makoto who goes terribly bad...


I'm very glad you liked the Kyon/Nanoha romance.

Strange that a romance that I put such little effort into came off better to you than the main overarching one of the entire story that I tried desperately to sell you on...


Speaking of that, I had sincerely hoped that Chapters 16 through 20 would lead to you fully accepting the Haruhi/Jinnai romance. The fact that you liked and accepted my argument that Haruhi and Jinnai were kindred spirits in wanting to change the world to suit their desires struck me as you saying that you might be prepared to buy into the romance between them.

The Chapter 16 argument between Haruhi and Jinnai is also your favorite section of the entire fanfic. You also feel that Haruhi and Jinnai were the two characters that I wrote the best through out the fanfic - and I thank you for that "extraordinarily well" compliment, by the way.

You yourself argued on this very thread that Jinnai's approach to Haruhi's power may pave the way to her gradually and safely coming into a full realization of it. You also agree that Kyon is to Haruhi what Groucho is to Jinnai - hence indicating agreement with yet another similarity between Haruhi and Jinnai (i.e. in how they treat close plutonic friends).

Here's something to consider: Haruhi and Jinnai quickly began to view each other as equals, for various reasons (Haruhi's intelligence and "cunning" in Jinnai's case; Jinnai's bold initiative and hero status amongst the bugrom in Haruhi's case). Viewing someone as an equal goes beyond how Haruhi and Jinnai even treat their closest plutonic friends - hence it could be argued that this represents an uniquely special relationship for each of them - which both of them would soon come to recognize upon reflection - which then naturally leads into a romance.


Within the fanfic itself, there was a lot of narration that I felt provided some strong reasons for why the Haruhi/Jinnai romance would work. This is especially true of Chapter 20. These reasons that I outlined through out the fanfic for why Haruhi/Jinnai would work - and work wonderfully, I think, honestly - were never really touched upon by you in either of your reviews. So... I'm not sure what to make of that. I mean, these are serious reasons, Spanner. I didn't just thoughtlessly take a male character I happened to like and throw him together with a female character I happened to like - there was a lot of consideration, rationale, and thought put behind my choice to go with a Haruhi/Jinnai romance.

I mean, given all of the above, I'm truly at a lost to understand why you still don't accept the Haruhi/Jinnai romance. It's not Haruhi/Fatora - it can't be Haruhi/Kyon because you're perfectly happy with Kyon/Nanoha, so...

Is it Jinnai/Diva?


Anyway, there is at least one more idea I have for selling the SOS Man/Bugwoman romance in a sequel - but it's kind of a nuclear solution that I'd rather not have to resort to. If I do resort to it, though, I think that even you would feel compelled to accept and buy into the Haruhi/Jinnai romance.


Given that both the main overarching romance of the story, and the main villain of the last few chapters, didn't resonate with you, there was obviously no hope of this fanfic being even close to one of your favorites. All told, given that I failed to sell you on Haruhi/Jinnai, your response to the fanfic as a whole is the best I could hope for. In fact, I want to thank you for putting aside your skepticism over the central romance of this story in order to try to enjoy the story in general.  

One thing I want to reveal to you (I already revealed it to Rowan in chats) - the entire motivation behind this story was the popularity of a fandom within the Haruhi fandom known as gender-bended Haruhi - gender-bended Haruhi himself named "Haruki".

This gender-bended fandom has become surprisingly huge on the internet, and made me think about which actual anime character is most like a male Haruhi Suzumiya.

I eventually came to the conclusion that the answer was Katsuhiko Jinnai, and hence this cross-over pairing struck me as a crack-ship on its face, but actually a very natural and fitting pairing once you dig deeper and resolve moral alignment (Haruhi's a protagonist; Jinnai's an antagonist) issues.

The idea of taking Katsuhiko Jinnai and a crack-ship involving him, and then making his reformation into a full-fledged protagonist both believable and enjoyable, and also making the crack-ship involving him believable and enjoyable, struck me as a very nice and bold challenge for me as a writer, and as a big Jinnai fan. The fact that I'm also a big Haruhi fan was simply icing on the cake. That was the main passion that fueled my writing here - accomplishing that challenge. Of course, I wanted the story as a whole to be good and enjoyable overall, but winning people over to the Haruhi/Jinnai romance, and the Jinnai-as-hero reformation, was my main goal.

So... I'm disappointed that I only accomplished half of my goal here. I've very glad that reformed Jinnai resonates with you, but am disappointment that the very romance that lead to the reformation didn't.

Oh well, as I said, I do have at least one significant trick left up my sleeve for a sequel.

I will be writing one, though I'm not sure when I will start it. I thank you for rounding down my six ideas to three.

Perhaps Rowan's further feedback will round it down even more.

Thanks for reading all of this fanfic, and reviewing it so thoroughly for me.

Two things that almost slipped my mind though - the YouTube trailer I made for the fanfic, and the Bugrom Queen Haruhi DeviantArt pic... did you like them? I actually ordered the DeviantArt commission based on your own enthusiasm over the idea of an image of Bugrom Queen Haruhi, as well as my own desire to see what such an image would look like if brought to life.

Have a good weekend!

19

El-Hazard Online / Re: The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

« on: July 15, 2009, 01:12:25 am »

First, let me congratulate you on seeing this through to the end.  Completing a story of this length and quality (and in this amount of time too) is an accomplishment you can be proud of.  

Thanks a lot.

And, overall, I enjoyed the final chapter and felt it was consistent with what came before it.  I'll answer the questions you listed more specifically later this week or this weekend and focus on the update itself for now.

No problem. It'll likely be awhile before I start writing any sequels. The specific feedback I asked for is largely for the purposes of getting a good idea of where to go with any sequels.

The confrontation on the rooftop was well written and probably one of the story's best fights, at least equal to or better than Yuki vs. Mikuru.  Jinnai's memory-fueled adrenaline rush and Haruhi's recollection-filled encouragements were well-timed and gave the battle a pleasing sense of emotional depth, and Galus was appropriately vicious and menacing here.

I was fairly confident that Jinnai's memory-fueled adrenaline rush would be compelling, but I was a bit worried that Haruhi's recollection-filled encouragements were a bit too lengthy - I'm glad that they both came across well, though.

I do feel that it was a bit overly comic book-y at moments, but I've mentioned that before and it's likely more a matter of different tastes between us than anything wrong with the story itself.

Do you remember when I asked you and Spanner for your choice between three alternate conclusions? Well, each option I had coincided with a different means of Galus being defeated.

Over-The-Top Option 1 - Haruhi becomes Bugwoman and helps SOS Man defeat Galus.


Suspension-Of-Disbelief Option 2 - Jinnai essentially becomes Bruce Willis, steals a gun from Galus, and eventually shoots Galus down with it after Galus blows up pieces of the rooftop in trying to corner Jinnai; Jinnai defeats Galus with little or no help from Haruhi. Here, you have to believe that Jinnai can
signal-handedly defeat a cyborg killing machine - which I felt might be a bit too much for you and Spanner to swallow.


Plot Devicey Option 3 -

Haruhi: Katsuhiko... you have to get up and fight! Hurry!

Galus (to Jinnai): NOW YOU DIE!!!

SOS Man catches Galus' downwards punch, which shocks Galus; SOS Man has a reddish aura of power all around him, as he's been temporarily imbued with the might of Superman by Haruhi's God-like abilities. Still holding Galus' punch in his closed palm, SOS Man rises to his feet.

Jinnai: I'm putting an end to your madness Galus... just as Haruhi and Groucho put an end to mine. Now, I'm going to show you a REAL punch!

Jinnai finishes off Galus with a SOS Punch that's more powerful than a locomotive.


Option 3 was actually my original plan, but I later decided that it would be better if Haruhi was a bit more active in her own rescue.

Option 2 was the only non-comicy booky one, but you and Spanner both shot it down, so...  

Truthfully, these were the only three ways I could picture SOS Man winning (Haruhi helps directly, or Jinnai pulls off a Bruce Willis impersonation, or Jinnai goes Superman temporarily). If Haruhi was going to help directly, I was going to have fun with it.

I also really liked the scene with the cheering Bugrom at the end,

I wanted the Bugrom Empire as a whole to have a nice ending for a change, and hence the cheering for their victorious Queen and Supreme Commander. I'm really glad you liked this touch.

...and I found Jinnai's line at Makoto's "interruption" very amusing.

Nice work with Makoto, Kyon, and Nanoha here too. There was nothing really unpredictable about the trio, but it was entertaining to see Kyon play the optimist to Makoto's pessimist in against type but believable portrayals.  And Kyon got the girl too which was nice.

The peace treaty signing was entertaining, and I particularly liked Jinnai's goading of Megraton.  The allusions to Transformers made the dialogue quite amusing.  The bit with Fatora was fun too.

Well, I'm very pleased that all of this came across well! Basically, it sounds like you enjoyed everything EXCEPT the big twist at the end. Since that means you enjoyed the solid majority of Chapter 20, that's pretty good then.

I had been a tiny bit hopeful that you or Spanner would like Chapter 20 in its entirety, but I also suspected that at least one bit of it would fall flat for one or both of you. For all but one scene to be received well is probably good.

 As for the deus ex machine at the end...  

I'm... not quite sure why you call him a deus ex machina. It's not like Haruki helped his parents beat Galus or anything like that. Haruki does serve a couple plot device-esque roles, but he doesn't resolve any life-or-death struggles. Not in this fanfic anyway.

I'm kind of split on it.  I liked your physical description of Haruki and the combination of Jinnai's mannerisms with Haruhi's excitement came across well,

That's excellent to know. Balancing out aspects of Haruhi with aspects of Jinnai in their future son is key to Haruki coming across well. It sounds like I managed this, which bodes well for any future use I make of him.

...and his inclusion does wrap the story up and explain what set the metaphorical wheel spinning...but on the other hand Haruki came pretty much out of the blue.

I should say here that, while I appreciate the value of the foreshadowing literary device, I'm not as big a fan of it as you are. Put another way, I think it's good to balance out foreshadowed plot developments with startling plot twists - story cohesiveness is important, but so is ensuring that your story isn't overly predictable.

Since Chapter 20 was going to be fairly predictable in how SOS Man vs. Galus would conclude, I felt that the Haruki twist at the end would serve to add at least one welcomed surprising element to Chapter 20.

Haruki IS out of the blue... and intended to be as such.

"Out of the blue" does not equal "bad", in my mind. A lot of readers/viewers like surprises like that from time to time.

For example, I remember an Iron Man comic from the late 90s where Dr. Doom shows up out of the blue to be the villainous mastermind behind a major anti-Iron Man plot. It was a magnificent and dramatic entrance for Doom - one of his coolest villain moments ever, I felt.

To make a comparison with OVA1 and Ifurita, although the audience didn't know who she was at the beginning they did know that she was responsible for putting the chain of events in motion.  When the OVA ended with Ifurita sent to Earth and reuniting with Makoto there was a beautiful sense of symmetry as everything came full circle and completed itself.  

OTOH, knowing that Ifurita loved Makoto and was the one to send him and the others to El Hazard made the El Hazard OVA much more predictable. For one, it was absolutely clear that Jinnai wasn't going to maintain control of Ifurita, which took a lot of the drama out of the Jinnai/Ifurita/Makoto scene in the final episode of the OVA, at least for me.

I agree with you on the beautiful sense of symmetry, but it came at a price.

With my own fanfic, I had hoped that Koizumi and Kyon in Chapter 20 referencing their own conversation in Chapter 1 would provide a nice sense of symmetry itself.

With your ending, because there was no foreshadowing at all that I can remember (other than Koizumi knowing more than he should, of course, but that's typical for Koizumi *g*) the same sense is missing and Haruki partially comes across as a contrived plot device.

I... really don't see how he's any more of a contrived plot device than Ifurita herself is. Both are used in almost identical ways to send people to El Hazard. Both serve plot device-esque roles but they're more than plot devices.

Had you included some mention of the "bizarre stranger who came out of nowhere and flashed the SoSBrigade with lights" in Kyon's narrative at some point in the story his sudden introduction might not have felt so abrupt, but as is it feels overly convenient.  

Rowan, given the nature of who Haruki is surely you must understand why I didn't want to tip my hat to him at all. It's easy to imagine, for example, that if I had incorporated the line that you suggested into an earlier chapter, that you and Spanner would ask "Why aren't Kyon and Koizumi brainstorming more on who this stranger could be? Why aren't they bringing him up to their new El Hazard friends?"

And once I walk down THAT path, I risk giving the entire secret away... which would spoil the Haruhi/Jinnai plot-line entirely.


I'm a bit surprised that Haruki, in and of himself, bothered you this much. I understand where you're coming from on him, but at the same time, I hope that you can see the rationale behind my use of him in this story, as well as my rationale for not hinting at him at all beforehand. I truly did not think that Haruki, in and of himself, would bother you anywhere near this much.

That being said, I was aware of the risks of having Haruki provide a startling explanation to Galus'
out-of-character behavior as of late. With that in mind...

Your use of him to explain away other "inconsistencies" exacerbated the issue too.

It's unfortunate that my explanation to Galus' "inconsistencies" didn't resonate with you... but I'll concede this particular complaint to you, since I knew going in that you and Spanner might not like this PARTICULAR way that I used Haruki.

Is it better for Galus to act out of character for no apparent reason, or is it better for Galus to act out of character because he's being manipulated from behind the scenes?

There's pros and cons both ways, and I was hopeful that you and Spanner would prefer the latter, but I can understand it if you don't.

Still, all in all a fun chapter and a good story.  Thanks for sharing, and I'll try to go into more detail on some other points later.    

Thanks.  

All of our disagreements aside, I now have a good read of what you like - for conclusions, at least, it seems that you prefer the neat and tidy cohesive approach with out any big plot twists at the end. If Spanner shares that sentiment, it'll give me a good idea of how to write any future El Hazard fanfic conclusions.

20

El-Hazard Online / Re: The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

« on: July 10, 2009, 05:21:52 pm »

Chapter 20 - The Finale - is up!: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=269068&page=7

I had the twist at the end planned from the very beginning, but I incorporated Galus into it in a way that I hope will answer all of the valid criticisms that both you, Rowan, and you, Spanner, have made concerning my handling of him.

You'll probably either like my fix of sorts, or you'll hate it. Oh well... I felt it was worth the risk.  

Aside from any general review, there is some specific feedback I'd greatly appreciate for the fanfic as a whole.

Spoiler space coming up for anybody reading this post who hasn't read Chapter 20 yet...

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
!!!

Ok... How do you feel I did with each of the following over the course of the entire fanfic?


Characterization -

Basic Enjoyment/Fun Factor -

Plot Believability -

General Writing Quality -


OVERALL -


1. Which character do you think I did the best job with?

2. Which character do you think I did the poorest job with?

3. Which chapter/scene was your favorite?

4. Which chapter/scene was your least favorite?

5. Which of the following sequel ideas do you like the best (keep in mind that some are mutually exclusive)?


Prequel: The Shinonome High of Haruhi Suzumiya - This would explore Haruhi Suzumiya's time at Shinonome High in the "original" time-line, eventually showing the journey to El Hazard half-way through. This one is compatible with all of the sequel options.


Sequel Option 1 - El Hazard's Finest - Focus' on SOS Man and Bugwoman; very comic booky; by far the most action-packed sequel based on my current ideas.

Sequel Option 2 - The Conquest of Katsuhiko Jinnai - Jinnai slips back into semi-villainy with a diabolical plot to militarily conquer El Hazard that he hopes will elude the notice of peace-loving Bugrom Queen Haruhi.

Sequel Option 3 - Haruhi Suzumiya's Return from El Hazard - This is the most... standard of the sequel options and will have many different subplots, trying to evenly balance out the El Hazard/Haruhi casts. Similar in style and tone to the fanfic I just finished here, but probably with significantly less action of the fighting sort.

Sequel Option 4 - El Hazard's Lyrical Nanoha - This sequel would be told from the perspective of Nanoha Inverse, and hence she would be the big star, with Kyon a close second, and the Shadow Tribe a close third. It will be a homage to Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha.


Tangent Story - The Adventures of Haruki Suzumiya-Jinnai - Loaded with original characters, scenes, and situations, though with some focus on Haruki's life growing up, and hence on his parents and the Bugrom Empire. Cameo appearances by most El Hazard/Haruhi Suzumiya characters. Would probably have something of a Dr. Who/Flash Gordon feel.


Well, that's it for now! I look forward to any and all feedback.

21

El-Hazard Online / Re: The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

« on: July 07, 2009, 08:43:44 pm »

All right! A few days late, but I finally dug into chapter 18!

No problem on the lateness! The review itself certainly made the wait for it worth it.

Haruhi's conversation with smug Galus was well-handled. It's comforting to see that Galus STILL underestimates the Power of Love! And the Power of Friendship. Oh, you bad-guy types... don't you ever learn?

lol  I'm glad that you liked that scene. I did spend a fair bit of time on that scene.

The "phantom scope" seemed a little too convenient, and I think it might turn out to be a bit weighty an albatross to deal with in the long run. A device like that, if widely manufactured, would all but end the Shadow Tribe as a threat! (Not to mention, render Nanami's power virtually useless.) Still, since this story is almost over, and the sequel probably won't feature them as prominently, I guess it's okay.

Perhaps the Shadow Tribe wins in Chapter 20 and soon after becomes the skynet of El Hazard. If so, a phantom scope might be necessary for the humans of El Hazard to just have a chance at staying alive.

In any event, I understand the valid criticisms that you and Rowan made of the Phantom Scope. It was, for me, a necessary plot device in order to set up certain scenes the way that I wanted them to be set up. It also makes it a bit less difficult to write dialogue as there's now a new item upon which the protagonist can extend some focus to.

Also, I liked the Ghostbusters cartoon when I was growing up. I kind of liked the idea of Makoto as a younger Egon Spangler, you could say - using El Hazard's equivalent of a ghost detector.

The scene with Jinnai's grudging vow not to kill that rat Mizuhara was well-played.

I'm glad that came across well.

Galus's careful efforts to neutralize our heroes' abilities without killing them have my anticipation growing steadily.

I'm glad that the suspenseful goal of me having Galus using those neutralization efforts were appreciated by you.

 I was pleased with Itsuki's announcement that he is immune to Yuki's time-freezing abilities. That's a good fix for the problem, and it looks like it might give Itsuki a moment in the spotlight as well.

Excellent! This was my main concern for Chapter 18 - finding a plot progression and method that would logically fix the problem of Yuki's time freeze.

Team Fujisawa's heroic struggle against Galus's trap was well-done, though I was a bit irked that Galus was apparently deliberately trying to kill them - and then changed his mind! As a writer, my advice would be to give Galus a mindset and then stick with it. If he needs them alive, have him spare them. If he wants them dead, keep it that way unless a legitimate reason comes up for his sparing them.

A better solution in this case, I think, would have been to either had Galus's intentions be non-lethal from the start, or allowed our heroes to escape to someplace temporarily beyond Galus's immediate reach before falling unconscious (maybe breaking through the wall would lead into a hard-to-access part of the facility, for instance).

(Edit: After reading Chapter 19, I know why Galus chose to spare them. Even so, I think this passage would have been better handled either with Galus planning to spare them from the start, planning to spare them IF they survived, or unable to kill them because they escaped. The fickle, spur-of-the-moment change of heart doesn't suit Galus well.)  

I understand your criticisms here as well. I'm going to explain where I'm coming from with my handling of Galus at the end of this post, since most of your negative assessments for these two chapters center around him.

Interesting, how in spite of all the preperations to deal with Yuki's time freezing ability, that ability never really came into play during the battle.

Well, she did try to get it off once, but failed to do so. Later, there was no point in her using it since Itsuki was in bodily contact with Makoto and Kyon - might as well just blast at them given that fact.

Finally, SOS Man leads the Bugrom in their finest hour! I enjoyed his speech (especially the part where he nearly went into convulsions regarding the Bugrom/Roshtaria truce). And so ends Chapter 18!

I'm glad that you and Rowan both enjoyed the speech. You and Rowan certainly share similar approaches and tastes - your reviews for Chapter 18 are quite similar.

And now, Chapter 19. I definitely appreciated Kyon's comparison of Galus's methods to those of a certain Clown Prince of Crime. I have to admit, though, that I'm still holding out hope that there's an actual method to Galus's madness, rather than madness for madness's sake.

And now, Nanoha returns! I have to admit I was kind of expecting to see her around this point.

On the one hand, I was hoping that her inclusion here might have surprised you; adding to the drama (i.e. "I wonder if Triple R has forgotten about Nanoha?")

On the other hand, it's nice to know that you didn't think that I had forgotten about Nanoha.

I chuckled a bit at the representation of Yuki's shackles being that of a thirty foot wall of screaming Shadow Tribe heads, and at Makoto's uneasiness both at the screaming wall and at Yuki's nonchalant attitude about it.

I enjoyed Kyon's and Nanoha's little heart-to-heart, and felt that it was quite well-done. Nanoha's reasons for changing sides were well-presented and believable, especially given her previous history.

Thank you!

I'm glad that these scenes resonated well. With most chapters, I have no serious worries with any Haruhi and/or Jinnai scene, so if I get some good protagonist scenes in, it gives me a shot at an uniformly good chapter.

Alas...

At last, we have Galus spilling his guts in regards to his master plan! I'm glad to see that he didn't just gather all the heroes to gloat at them, but he still does seem to be taking some rather odd risks given that he's not a god QUITE yet. On the other hand, he seems to have done a pretty good job in preparing for Yuki's betrayal. That was good to see.

Then, SOS Man to the rescue! I was a bit disgruntled at Galus's utter shock that Jinnai came at all. Even assuming that Galus knew the conditions that Jinnai had to satisfy to escape imprisonment, wouldn't Galus have considered the possibility that Jinnai might LIE in order to get out? He seemed awfully confident that Jinnai was permanently removed from the equasion, when it seems like there are many ways Jinnai could have weaseled out of his predicament, even discounting those that depend on the Power of Love. While it was certainly appropriate for Galus to taunt Haruhi with images of Jinnai stewing in jail forever due to Haruhi's betrayal, it's not something Galus should have taken so far to heart himself.

That said, though, I have to admit that I loved the scenes described during the rescue. Jinnai's rescue scene was quite amusing and well-done, both in the very Jinnai-esque strategies involved (flinging a Super Bugrom at the barrier to break it down was an especially nice touch), and in the confrontation scene on the rooftop.

In the end, though, Galus reveals his Mecha-Galus powers! Will Galus triumph over his foes? (No.) Will everyone be blown to bits by the hydrogen bomb? (No.) Will Jinnai and Haruhi be reunited at last? (Yes. Well, they kinda have already, I guess.) Stay tuned for the answers to these gripping questions!!!

Well, I'm very glad that you enjoyed the handling of SOS Man for this chapter! I had intended for that to be the highlight of it.

Now, as for Galus...

I understand where you're coming from on him. But... and I just want to throw this out there for casual consideration... do you think that you might be expecting a bit too much from him? I mean, you (and perhaps Rowan as well) seem to want me to write Galus as almost infallible.

I certainly can understand how a person reviewing a fanfic would naturally pay close attention to characters making mistakes - particularly plot-moving characters like main antagonists making mistakes. Galus absolutely made a mistake in dismissing Jinnai (and hence the Bugrom Empire) as a variable worth considering given the results of the Haruhi/Jinnai confrontation of Chapter 16.

However, is it truly out of character for him to make that mistake?

I think that upon viewing the entire Haruhi/Jinnai argument (and he did - if you reread the last post for Chapter 16, it points out how Galus watched the entire argument from afar), that Galus would tend to put himself in Jinnai's shoes and think...

If any woman had betrayed me the way that the Bugrom Queen just betrayed Jinnai, I would think "to hell with her". On top of that, there's no way I'd bow to any person's attempt to force me to promise to not take revenge on my most bitter enemy or enemies. Likewise, Jinnai is through. He's not coming back from this.

Galus simply projects his own personality unto Jinnai, and takes comfort in removing Jinnai as a variable to concern himself with. This is pleasing to Galus since now he can focus exclusively on the Roshtarian contingent. To me, it's a believable thing for Galus to do. In fact, I would say that it reflects Galus' greatest weakness - his inability to understand the drives and determinations of other people, since he himself has become very ruthless and unattached emotionally to almost everybody.

I don't think that a villain needs to be infallible in order to be compelling. I think that he or she simply needs to be a careful planner in general, and to have a certain level of power and/or influence to him or her.

Now, as for Galus' overall approach to the Roshtarians - I'll admit that I was writing him as being a bit fickle there. This is for a couple reasons...

1. I want to keep you and Rowan guessing as to what Galus will do next; to add to the suspense as it were. Part of the reason why I disagree with the "infallible villain" notion is that it makes such a villain too predictable and hence lacking in suspense, in my view.

In general, I want unpredictability to be one of the main positives to my fanfics - I want them to twist and turn in ways that surprise the readers (incidentally, I dislike how Chapter 20 seems predictable to you - mind you, perhaps a predictable conclusion is forgivable after how both you and Rowan seemed to find a couple earlier plot twists to be surprising).


2. As a writer, there's certain scenes I want to write. I conceive of scenes that I think would make for good and/or fun reads, and then I try to create a plot that will make those scenes happen.

Basically, I wanted to write a dramatic death trap scene, I wanted to write a Galus tries to coerce the Roshtarians into joining him scene, and I wanted to write SOS Man as the startling hero that shockingly appears to try to stop a stunned Galus scene - starling given how SOS Man is originally the villainous Katsuhiko Jinnai, and who has been put in quite a bind by Haruhi Suzumiya; the very same person who needs rescuing right now.

I had actually considered not showing Jinnai (or the bugrom) AT ALL until SOS Man's arrival in Chapter 19, to even add more oomph to his appearance. In retrospect, maybe I should have went that way... though I found the idea of a SOS Man/bugrom rally scene too good to pass up (and I also felt that Nanoha's long layoff before making a timely rescue was probably enough of a startling reappearance on its own).


So... sometimes, I ask myself questions like "This may be a little bit hard to swallow... but it would make for a great scene or two! Is it worth it?" - by the way, the same question went through my mind with Haruhi/Jinnai flying over the Roshtarian city walls back in Chapter 13. Is a great scene worth a set-up that requires some suspension of disbelief (obviously in the case of the Haruhi/Jinnai flying scene I decided 'yes')? Also, is it possible your readers won't even notice the questionable parts in your plot - hence all they see is the great scene?

Well, one thing you and Rowan have shown - you guys don't miss any holes at all.     I certainly can't pull a fast one by you - heck, you guys even notice stuff that I myself never thought of (i.e. it honestly never occurred to me that Galus could just use a similar method to kill Mikuru instead of shooting acid into her eyes).

So balancing plot believability with fun scene creation and unpredictable plots is perhaps my greatest challenge as a writer.

Well, if after reading all of this, you'd still prefer Galus to be a more careful villain, I can make his dialogue in Chapter 20 reflect that a bit more. I just felt that I should explain why I wrote him the way that I did, as well as offering some insight into my overall approach when writing fiction - as for Galus' failure to factor Jinnai in at all, it was to make SOS Man's arrival that much more... pulse-pounding, I guess you could say - and I also felt that it may be believable for Galus to fail to factor Jinnai in; as for Galus' changing approach to the Roshtarians - yeah, that's probably out of character for him, but I thought it could make for a good scene or two.

Anyway, thanks for the great reviews! And also, this is my first major fanfic in a long time, so it's only natural for it to have some weaknesses. It's good to have them pointed out to me for future reference.

My final question is if you found Chapters 18 and 19 enjoyable and satisfying taken on the whole? If the pros outweighed the cons as it were?

22

El-Hazard Online / Re: The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

« on: July 07, 2009, 04:21:45 pm »

Oh, I forgot to respond to your question about Yuki's powers. To be honest, I don't know how far-reaching Yuki's world-changing abilities are. I know that the events happen (they take place in Novel #4, "The Vanishment of Haruhi Suzumiya"), but I don't know whether the fanfiction authors may have embellished exactly what Yuki did in that novel.

Regardless, even within the scope of the first season of the anime, we've witnessed some rather phenominal abilities on the part of the Human Interfaces we've seen, such as Ryoko's ability to transform a classroom into a sealed environment, Ryoko's ability to hold Kyon helplessly in place, Ryoko's and Yuki's ability to transform matter from one form to another, and so on.

Ifurita's abilities, from what we saw of them, seemed strictly limited to combat techniques. Even in the case of her shutting down the Eye of God, that wasn't her own ability; it was Makoto, working through her using the Power Key Staff she'd left with him. Now, to be sure, with the techniques Ifurita has picked up over the ages she was an incredible force to be reckoned with, the fact still remains that her chosen methods for dealing with foes involves shooting stuff at them, rather than, say, transforming them into a chunk of lead.

While we may disagree on how powerful each respective entity may be, I think that the evidence we've seen shows Yuki to have the upper hand in close-quarters combat. Even if she can't nuke a city, if Yuki can render you completely helpless she's gonna win any one-on-one encounter.

Oh, good grief - this is starting to sound like one of those lame Superman vs. Goku threads.

Oh, I think that Yuki would defeat Ifurita in one-on-one close-quarters combat as well - if nothing else, Yuki is probably faster.

I'd just like to think that there's something that Yuki would gain from becoming a Demon God. That's just personal preference on my part, though.

It's interesting that you mentioned Superman vs. Goku... are you a regular poster on Comic Book Resources forums, the site where I have this fanfic up, and where Superman vs. Goku is kind of infamous?

I'll have more to say in another response to your chapter reviews in a while.

23

El-Hazard Online / Re: The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

« on: July 05, 2009, 11:08:10 am »

For Rowan and Spanner...

Chapter 19 is up!: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=9220734&posted=1#post9220734


Well, Rowan, I hope that you like this chapter a bit more than the last one! This is the final cliffhanger.

24

El-Hazard Online / Re: The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

« on: July 04, 2009, 04:39:11 pm »

Sorry I've been out of touch; last week was unexpectedly busy.

That's no problem. Here's hoping you and Rowan have a nice 4th of July!

As such, I haven't had a chance to read your new material yet. I thought I'd pop in and answer your questions, however:

I might indeed.

I'm glad to read that. I think that I may do a largely comedy-based sequel borrowing from some of the great ideas for comedy/slice of life scenes that you and Rowan have given me. Under different circumstances than those of Chapter 17, I'm inclined to agree with you that Fatora and Haruhi would have handled the scene between them differently, and that could make for good comedy. There's probably not room to fit it in within this particular fanfic, but with a sequel... who knows.

Remember, at the start of the series (or first, novel, if you prefer), both Kyon and Haruhi are beginning their first year of High School, which, in the US, would be tenth grade. When you first see them, they are both fifteen years old, though might have become sixteen at some point during the first year. If Absolute Anime lists them as seventeen, I'd say they're either mistaken, or using Haruhi's age from the later novels (I'm not sure how many years the Haruhi franchise covers). Another possibility is that both of them were held back a year - but that seems extremely unlikely, as Haruhi is supposed to be a brilliant student, and Kyon is, at the very least, average (though given his distinct philosophical bent, I'd say he's probably a lot brighter than he gives himself credit for).

I agree that Haruhi is a very smart student - I do put her in an intellectual class with Makoto and Jinnai, only with the three having slightly different areas of expertise.

Kyon is probably an above average student, and of above average intelligence.

Anyway, a 17 year old in a romance with a 15 year old isn't terrible, so I don't think that's a problem. Thanks for all the info though.

Well, it's like I said earlier; I thought that Fatora seemed a little too restrained, though, again, that could be attributed to their current surroundings. She actually asks Haruhi's permission to drag her into bed, and takes no for an answer!

Alielle seemed spot-on, though; I have no complaints about her dialogue. Fatora's off-handed way of discarding Alielle when it was convenient seemed in-character for Fatora, as well. If you're asking strictly about the dialogue between these two characters, rather than the dialogue of these two character with each other and with everyone else, I'd have to say it's good work.

Good points.

I think your interpretation of Groucho is perfectly legitimate, and I enjoy it quite a bit!

That's great to read!

All three options sound tempting, though it's really hard to make a judgment without knowing exactly what you have in mind. I will admit that the bit about supension of disbelief seems a bit ominous; best to avoid stretching that unless absolutely necessary. I guess I'd have to side with Rowan and say 1 or 3 would be for the best.

Before I sign off, I did want to remark on one additional thing; you expressed confusion at the idea of Haruhi taking an aggressive attitude toward Fatora, when both Rowan and I agree that she's pretty hopeless when it comes to matters of love. There's an easy answer to that: love doesn't have anything to do with it, at least not the romantic sort that Haruhi considers to be a "mental illness".

While I personally don't recall Haruhi referring to love as a "mental illness", or implying/saying something to that effect, I now have no doubt that she did since you've brought it up twice now.  However, you seem to be attaching an inordinate amount of importance to it, Spanner.

Haruhi also (in)famously said, in a brash and bold proclamation to her entire class, that she basically only wanted to be friends with espers, time travellers, aliens, or sliders. How long did it take her to go back on that proclamation, taking into account how neither of her SOS Brigade members fits into either of the categories she provided, to the best of her knowledge?

I think that you (and possibly Rowan as well) are assigning far too much weight to implications or proclamations or statements made by Haruhi that may be no more binding than the one I mentioned above.

Actually, the following is a very plausible interpretation of her character I think... Haruhi is looking for romance; hence why she had so many different boyfriends and/or dates with guys. After being displeased with every last person she dated, she eventually decided that romance was a lost cause, and hence "love is a mental disease".

It only takes one extraordinary guy (at least in her eyes) to change her assessment here, though...

Beyond that, though, there's something else I want to point to. There was a Haruhi episode I rewatched in order to get a better feel for Koizumi's esper powers. That episode included a scene in which the Computer Club President's girlfriend hires Haruhi's SOS Brigade to search for her missing boyfriend. During the discussion between Haruhi and the CC President's girlfriend, Haruhi actually acted like she was empathizing with the CC President's girlfriend's romantic hurts - Kyon made incredulous narration over it, but to me, it clearly shows that Haruhi is not HARDCORE set against romance. If she was, I don't think that Haruhi could fake that empathy over romantic hurts... or maybe she's not even faking it. Maybe she was truly empathizing, given her own disappointments with guys.

It's not hard at all for me to imagine her falling for a charismatic intelligent seventeen year old Japanese male that is beloved by an empire of aliens and who is usually very nice and complimentary towards her, and even gives her a beautiful necklace that's ideal for her. Nor is it hard for me to see her acting upon genuine attraction for a guy; at least not once a sufficient catalyst is provided - the gift of the necklace being a very believable catalyst I think.

Actually, I had been much more worried about people buying Jinnai falling for Haruhi; particularly given Jinnai's reaction to Diva's advances in the Alternate World.


All of this being said, I think that I might now see the real reason why you weren't too keen on the Haruhi/Jinnai shipping - it's not Haruhi/Kyon at all; you're just afraid Haruhi/Jinnai might jeopardize a good Haruhi/Fatora scene!

Don't worry - I may have a way for you to get the desired Haruhi/Fatora scene(s) while still staying true to my Haruhi/Jinnai shipping. You can call it "The Compromise of Spanner and Triple R" if you want, in the vein of my naming scheme for these chapters.

What Haruhi does to Mikuru, and what Fatora does to the women she dominates, can't really be considered love or romance.  

With the possible exception of Fatora's relationship with Alielle, I agree.

In the case of Fatora, I'm not saying that she should hop into bed with her. However, Fatora is clearly trying to intimidate and dominate her - and as Brigade Chief, it's not the kind of thing I think she would stand for! Haruhi, once "challenged" in this way, should take steps to bend Fatora to her will, whether it be through counter-intimidation, blackmail, or whatever other tools prove to be convenient. Not that she'd necessarily be successful - both of them have very strong wills, and a rather painful lack of common sense. Their clash of wills could be most entertaining.

Ok, I totally agree with you here. I definitely see your point here, and agree with you here. It's certainly something I'll keep in mind for future writing - either at the end of this fanfic, or in a future one.

Honestly... I made the romance/sex argument concerning Haruhi more in the hopes that it would change your mind on Haruhi/Jinnai than in the hopes that it would change your mind on how Haruhi and Fatora would relate to one another.

Note, that's just my interpretation of both their characters. Your interpretation may be different, but it's not necessarily bad or wrong. I'll admit, though, that that's the kind of thing I hoped for when you promised a Fatora/Haruhi comedy scene. It's like I said, you can't please me all the time, and it's a mistake to even try!

Hopefully, I'll have a chance to read chapter 18 tomorrow.

I may have Chapter 19 up by then as well. Here's hoping!



Edit: I don't know about your comparisons of Yuki and Ifurita. Do you think that you might be selling Ifurita a bit short there, or reading too much into what Yuki did? I mean - has Yuki shown an ability to travel through dimensions; to shut down an out of control Eye of God; to destroy entire cities in a few blasts of energy?

You wrote that Yuki "completely rewrote the world". Did she do that, or did she just change the world as it pertained to four people - Haruhi, herself, Kyon, and Itsuki? I mean, was their evidence of anything else about the world having changed, or was it purely localized to North High?

If it was purely localized, it might be a bit of a logic leap to say that Yuki is as powerful a reality warper as you have argued for here.

If it really was truly global... I have to say that it ruins the whole point of the canon Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya for me. I mean, if Yuki has that kind of power, then why the hell would she care the least bit about Haruhi Suzumiya? It just doesn't fit.

25

El-Hazard Online / Re: The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

« on: July 03, 2009, 08:25:37 pm »

And so, Chapter 18 and another step closer to the finale.  There was some good, some bad, and a fair amount of entertainment in this update, and I'll start this review with the former.  First, good job with Galus' dialogue and your choice of accented words.  It's been long enough since I last watched the OVA series that I don't remember if this is how he talks and earlier in the story all the idioms came across as slightly strange to me, but they've grown on me and his speech patterns really conveyed a sense of menace here.

I personally recall Galus as being a gentlemanly villain in how he tried to sound polite at most times... but he would laugh at his enemy's pain (as he did in one scene involving Fatora screaming out in pain while she was held in the Shadow Tribe's hold) - hence why he laughs at Haruhi's pain here. I vaguely recall his dialogue having a certain... smoothness and refined nature to it. Hence his use of complex metaphors.

I myself haven't watched the El Hazard OVA in quite some time, aside from a few scenes that I re-watched purely for the purposes of helping myself write this fanfic. I'm writing Galus mostly by memory.

I also really liked Jinnai's scene where he rallied the Bugrom and departed in his rescue attempt.

That was my favorite scene in the chapter as well. I'm glad you liked it.

 Groucho's ploy to get through to his master worked a bit quicker than I would have initially expected,

Well, that's part of the reason why I had the Groucho/Jinnai scene in Chapter 17. Showing Jinnai's anguished indecisiveness over Haruhi vs. Makoto there makes his quick response to Groucho's ploy more believable in my view - we've seen Jinnai struggle with it long enough; it really is time for him to make a choice.

Also, I personally felt that Groucho's ploy was quite clever. Even if Jinnai is still undecided on Haruhi/Makoto, it makes sense for him to place more value on saving his girlfriend's life than going out of his way to ensure that his archenemy lives just so that Jinnai is the one to kill Makoto instead.

... but Jinnai isn't the type of person to hesitate when a decision needs to be made and you conveyed his sheer disgust at having to make such a promise quite well.  His distaste at the tentative peace agreement with the Alliance also felt like a nice in-character touch, and his speech was simultaneously amusing and rousing.  You have me genuinely interested in seeing how his devious mind copes with whatever defenses Galus has available.

Thanks! I'm very glad you found the speech both amusing and rousing - a balance of the two is what I was aiming for.

Koizumi's anticipation of Galus's tactics was interesting and added a more cerebral element to this encounter, though I am slightly puzzled how Koizumi knew the Phantom Tribe had installed neural inhibiters in Yuki's head.  

He might not. One thing I should point out - Kyon's narration is present tense, but it's told by him looking back on these events. So, if the narration mentions something, that doesn't necessarily mean that anybody other than Kyon knows. Also, Kyon himself may only know it in his narrator role; looking back on these events.

Does Makoto's targeting of the neural inhibitors also mean that he's been told about Yuki's alien status now, by the way?

Good question. I haven't thought of that. However, I don't think it makes too much of a difference in the sense that there's probably not much harm in Makoto knowing - I mean, Makoto shouldn't be "freaked out about it" or anything like that; he is living primarily amongst aliens now anyway.

Kyon had some entertaining bits of narrative, and I particularly liked his "Damn" at the end of his account of the triple agent.  With so much going on in the previous chapter his sarcasm came across as a bit understated to me, and I'm glad to see it returning.

Thank you. As you said, there was simply not much room to squeeze in Kyon sarcasm in Chapters 13 through 17; keeping in mind, of course, that these chapters included him frequently playing a heroic role, which doesn't always gel well with a sarcastic tone. Even in the canon Haruhi anime, Kyon had to take upon himself an atypically upbeat tone in trying to talk Haruhi into not remaking the world while him and her shared that dream together.

However, after several chapters of little Kyon snark; it was time for it to return. I'm glad you liked it.

As for the bad, the Phantom Scope seems like something of a gimmick to me.  I picture Dr. Schtalubaugh as more of the scholar-scientist type rather than a geneticist, and I don't remember him every displaying such proficiency with creating what appears to be a complex technological device.  And Nanami's power is to see through Phantom Tribe illusions, not detect members of the Phantom Tribe,

Yes, but it's those illusions that prevent people from recognizing Phantom Tribe members when they're around. It doesn't seem odd to me that a person mysteriously gifted with the power to see through those illusions may have something within her that could be utilized to track Phantom Tribe members... since with the illusions removed, anybody could recognize them.

 so the Scope's contrasting radar ability seems even odder to me.  Even assuming Dr. Schtalubaugh can create such a device using a sample of Nanami's DNA, though, if the party of would-be rescuers split into two groups why would one group (Afura's) take both the Scope AND Nanami?

Two points.

First of all, the Scope had already determined that there was no Shadow Tribe signals coming from the right path - the path leading to Yuki. Shadow Tribe signals were only coming from the left path.  These aren't terribly long paths - hence why there's little break in action from when the two groups break apart, and the trap being sprung on Afura and her team. With the paths not being that long, there's no reason to believe that a Shadow Tribe member (including Nahato) could sneak onto the right path out of nowhere (given the very recent Phantom Scope readings) before Koizumi's team reaches Yuki's room.


Secondly, Koizumi can only provide Time Freeze protection to those in bodily contact with him - hence, the more he takes with him, the more cumbersome it becomes to maintain such bodily contact amongst everyone, and hence the more dangerous it becomes for the team as a whole.

Makoto is clearly needed for Koizumi's plans to succeed for obvious reasons. Kyon's magnetic powers may come in very handy against Yuki.

Nanami would have perhaps been the fourth best person to have along here, but it could be argued that four people constantly touching each other while walking is a bit of a crowd and that it impedes movement.

That leaves Makoto, Kyon, and Koizumi defenseless against any Phantom Tribers they come across, and a really good illusionist such as Nahato could probably have taken them out even before they reached Yuki.  Otherwise the members of the two parties made sense, but I'd really try to do something about this apparent oversight in logic.

I don't think that there's an oversight in logic here. I think that the team formations I've made here make sense. If you still don't think that they make sense, then please tell me, and I'll consider re-editing Chapter 18.

Galus's method of dealing with Afura's party also REALLY felt like something out of a Saturday morning cartoon.

Death traps are common in far more than Saturday morning cartoons.

I've long felt that one of the glaring weaknesses of the canon El Hazard antagonists - including OVA Jinnai himself, quite frankly - is their failure to take more care in trying to counter the powers of their enemies as well as taking advantage of the weaknesses of their enemies (Wanderers Jinnai gets a pass here because he actually did take advantage of Fujisawa's alcohol weakness).

I thought it would be nice, for a change, to see an El Hazard antagonist actually take advantage of some pretty exploitable weaknesses - hence a gas chamber of death tailor made for Sensei Fujisawa.

In my mind, the set up for this gas chamber was far more complex - simply in the type of gas used - than what you'd see on most Saturday morning cartoons.

 That's not necessarily a bad thing since it was effective (though I'm left wondering why Afura didn't take to the air and fly the moment she felt the floor slide out from under her)

It was only a ten feet drop. That's actually a pretty quick drop. Afura has never struck me as having super quick reaction times. Also, part of the reason why I gave her the Phantom Scope was so that her focus would be a little bit more divided than normal - hence helping to explain why she didn't react so suddenly to the floor sliding out from under her.

but between the trap door and subsequent "put them in chains and bring them to my throne room" that's the image I formed and recalling the likes of Shredder and Dr. Claw breaks the tension somewhat.  I think one way of handling this might be to emphasize its cartoony character through Kyon's biting sarcasm and hammering in the point that despite how silly it appears it worked and everyone's in greater danger now.

How is it silly? Like you said yourself, it's effective. Galus isn't familiar with 80s cartoons - for him, it's all a matter of effectiveness.

It's a good trap for him to set. Keep in mind that it's a back-up trap. If the trap was Plan A, I could perhaps see it being a bit cheesy, but as a back-up trap, it speaks well of Galus' ability to have good contingency plans and to not rely overly on Plan A. Plan A was simply for Yuki to  take everybody out during a time freeze/sneak attack from behind; Plan A became neutralized, though, due to how Koizumi is impervious to time freeze, and also since he saw through the plan hence causing three people to head towards Yuki instead of away from her.

Galus' trap also almost works perfectly - at the very least, it did leave over half of the protagonists unconscious and at Galus' mercy.

You also have me wondering a bit about what exactly Galus's plan is.  When it was revealed that he basically intended to have the protagonists walk into a death trap in the last chapter, I assumed his goal was to kill all of them while Haruhi watched and drive her to such anger and despair that she destroys the world.  Now he seems to have changed his mind and is more interested in capturing Haruhi's power rather than obliterating El-Hazard...or is he pursuing both and keeping the rescuers alive so he can murder them later if the Phantom Tribe's science proves incapable of copying/transferring their prisoner's powers?

Well, if he gets Haruhi's power, he can still destroy El Hazard - in fact, it becomes easier for him to do so. Galus was impressed enough by his enemies bid for survival that he's had a slight change of heart on something. You're going to see that in Chapter 19.

And, honestly, your assumption was simply off. That was never my plan here. I guess that it's good that I'm still surprising you at least, eh?

 I'm confused on this point.

Otherwise, the chapter's all right.  Not one of my favorites, but it moved the story along and featured some compelling developments. With so many people in one place, though, a lot of the secondary characters felt understated to me.

A fair criticism, but perhaps an unavoidable one. I felt that too much protagonist dialogue - dialogue that would be either superfluous or casual chit-chat - would break the suspenseful tension/mood.  

I think one of your bigger challenges is going to be doing justice to such a huge and dynamic cast now that most of them are all assembled (or are assembling) together in one place.  Anyway, good luck with your writing and thanks for sharing.

Rowan... out of curiosity, what were your favorite chapters?

Not all of the cast members are going to be prominent in the last two chapters. I don't intend for them to be. Actually, I'm kind of surprised that you haven't guessed the finale yet. A classic finale type (perhaps even cliche I will admit) is just waiting here, and it'll even include a couple neat facets and twists to it (that'll act as a neat subversion of the cliche aspects, I hope).

Anyway, a lot of cast members are there because it would be illogical to leave any of them behind for a rescue mission, and also since they should get some more screen time than what they've been given so far.

Well... given my failings in Chapters 17 and 18 for Spanner (17) and you (18 ), making this finale enjoyable for you both is going to be a challenge. All I can say is that I will try my best to meet that challenge for you both!

26

El-Hazard Online / Re: The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

« on: June 29, 2009, 12:12:21 pm »

Chapter 18 is up!:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=9185989&posted=1#post9185989


Now, Spanner, I think that I've found a way out of the corner that you believe me to be painted in.    Although, I'll admit that I've created a new corner for myself for dramatic purposes.  

A few points...

1. You're very close to the full scope of this fanfic. And it was actually Itsuki and Kyon who had the conversation you were refering to, way back in Chapter 1, but kudos all the same for just remembering it at all! That certainly shows how you're a dedicated reviewer and careful reader.  

Let me just say that Katsuhiko Jinnai may very well be the key that Itsuki Koizumi has always been looking for in ensuring that Haruhi Suzumiya never tries to reboot the world while also ensuring that Haruhi gradually adapts into her reality altering powers. Also, perhaps Haruhi can be kept sufficiently entertained at all times by the charismatic Jinnai.


2. I tend to like to end my fanfics off with a bang in the final chapter. I tend to like stories in general this way - so much so that I dislike the trend of some animes to have an entire aftermath episode after the big climax fight. I personally feel that the last episode of a major story arc should be the one in which the big climax occurs. Same with the last chapter of a fanfic. That being said...


3. Given no. 2, there's a good chance I'll write a sequel to this story at some point, delving into some of the issues that you and/or Rowan have frequently raised, but which I simply can't squeeze in to a short quarter-of-a-chapter aftermath after the big climax. I'll want to take a break from fanfic writing once I'm finished this 20-Chapter project, but in the future... who knows, maybe there will be more story to tell. Would you be interested, Spanner?

4. As per 3, there's 2 Chapters left. That's DEFINITE now.

5. Thanks for all the great info and thoughts on Yuki! I was NOT aware of a lot of that.     My thinking was that the amnesia would limit Yuki's skill at fighting, but would make her more ruthless in battle - hence, making her a much more fun antagonist in general. Putting her on Galus' leash was needed to ensure that she'd be an antagonist, and also to make Galus seem more powerful and ominous.

Finally, I intended for Yuki to maintain all of her original abilities, and simply add El Hazard demon god ones to them. Mind you, I did this with out knowing just how powerful Yuki was... yikes! Still, she was intended to be a VERY powerful antagonist... but one limited by her lack of memory.


Edit reply for Rowan:

Thanks for listing all of those El Hazard city/country names for me! I really appreciate it, and there's a couple there I may edit in to Chapter 17 later (some of those names I have to admit I don't like - mind you, Engrome sounds pretty bad too )

No problem on the late review. I'm Canadian, and so July 4th isn't a big holiday for me personally, but... if I can have this fanfic finished by July 3rd, would that be soon enough for you to read and review it all, or would you rather me hold off the final chapter until, say, July 6th?

I'm really glad you took note of the return of the Bugrom resource manual and Zala adherents! Touches like that were a big part of why I thought it was my best chapter. I also admit that I myself really liked the cabaret Mikuru idea I had - it's quite a nice visual image, I think.


As for the Jinnai scene falling flat with both you and Spanner - I think a lot of it may be how it's a painful bit to read if you like Jinnai AND you don't know what's happening next. As a Jinnai fan myself, I'd find it hard to read if I didn't know (as the author) what would be coming later. However, I think that this Chapter 17 scene might add a bit of added OOMPH to the Chapter 18 Jinnai scenes.

Let's just say I'm a sucker for Rocky Balboa-like comeback stories...


As for Season 2 Haruhi Suzumiya - I've only seen the first episode yet. The outro is very different - lots of flashing lights and techo. Hare Hare Yukai is completely gone. The episode is decent slice of life. It has some nice Kyon/Mikuru and Kyon/Yuki scenes. It also includes Kyon in his John Smith role, working for a younger Haruhi (Kyon goes back in time in this episode). My main complaint is the artwork - it still looks nice, but all of the characters look de-aged to me. Haruhi could almost pass for a pre-teen, actually.

BTW - Haruhi and Jinnai are the same age. They're both 17, according to Absolute Anime, If I remember correctly.


Three special questions for both Spanner and Rowan...

1) Did you like the Alielle/Fatora dialogue in Chapter 17? Basically, do you think I'm still writing them well?


2) Having had about 16 chapters of bugrom dialogue, how do you feel about it now? Do you like the personality that I've given Groucho, for example? Truthfully, my Groucho is highly inspired by 80s/early 90s western cartoons. I even tried to give him just a touch of Optimus Prime.


3) Pertaining to the climax, I'm weighing three options...

  1) Cheesy and over-the-top, but hopefully really fun

  2) Very intense, a bit dark, but you'll probably have to suspend disbelief a bit.

  3) Most of the fun of 1 with less cheese, the intensity of 2 with less darkness, but more plot devicey than 1 or 2 ( not requiring suspension of disbelief, just plot devicey).

Any preference between the 3?

27

El-Hazard Online / Re: The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

« on: June 27, 2009, 01:10:21 pm »

No problem on me being disheartened a bit by the Chapter 17 review. Your latest reply here helped pick me up a bit.

That said, I wanted to respond to a couple of your counter arguments.

First off, the club you pictured is actually known as a "Nightstick", not a "Knife stick". An easy mistake to make if you've never actually read the term, but only heard it on television. Here's a Wiki article on the weapon. There are many different varieties, but if you scroll about halfway down the Wiki page, you'll see a picture of the tonfa-style nightsticks you probably had in mind. Now that I know what weapon you had in mind, the scene seems a lot less silly. Yes, a nightstick would be an effective counter against Kyon.

Well, that clears that up for both of us then.

Thanks for the info. I'll edit in the proper term later.

As for the Ranma thing, perhaps I didn't explain my discomfort carefully enough. It might just be me, but in a story that already embraces the crossover concept, if we see a famous name pop up attached to a character that resembles the original holder of the name, then I smile and acknowledge the character. If the character does NOT resemble the original, then I want to know why - and with no explanation provided, I'm left confused and a bit irritated.

I acknowledge that there are many possible explanations as to why this Ranma Saotome is a bully. The original's actions certainly could SEEM like those of a bully at times - Ranma's "bullying" is pretty much Ryoga's whole motivation for following him, even if Ranma himself had no idea he was being a bully. (He was similarly "mean" to Ukyou, though she somehow made friends with him anyway.) Another explanation could be that this Ranma Saotome is just some poor guy whose sadistic parents named him after a manga character - it wouldn't be surprising if someone like that was picked on to the point where he became a bully in retaliation.

My beef is that none of these explanations are provided. Only by talking with you personally, here on the forums, do I know that you pretty much just pulled the name out of a hat and assigned it to a random throwaway character. A random reader, assuming they have the same sort of mindset as myself, is going to wonder why you chose that name, and whether you were taking a mean-spirited shot at the original by attaching his name to a bully.

I understand your motivations behind adding homage names like this. I just want to make you aware that doing it seemingly at random like this might not have the effect you intended. Nanoha Inverse worked, in part because the split name made it abundantly clear that this Nanoha was different, and in part because you greatly developed her backstory. Megraton worked, because he retained the aggressiveness and paranoia of the original character.

Ok, I see your points. I concede this point to you entirely. I'll go back and rename Ranma Saotome to Ranma Taro.

As for Yuki... I understand that she has great power, and that it might have been her turn to win. My concern is that by rendering her still able to use an ability like Time Stop (you say that's an actually canon ability from TMoSH? I'm only passingly familiar with Haruhi canon beyond the first anime season and the first novel) ...

Yuki uses time manipulation in the first episode of the 2nd season of TMoSH. That episode only came out recently though - and I only got around to watching it after I had started this fic, and wrote Kyon/Koizumi/Fujisawa vs. Yuki/Nanoha. This put me in the uncomfortable position of having to incorporate in new powers for Yuki that I had not been aware of before (as I'm not a reader of the Haruhi novels).

I really couldn't justify her not using time stop given how useful it would be in an abduction attempt.

Or, perhaps even more likely, Yuki consciously chose not to show off her more powerful abilities, knowing that Galus (whom she doesn't much like) would force her to use them explicitly if he knew she was capable of such power. Of course, if he didn't know before, then he knows now.

I'm leaning towards this in-fanfic explanation. Thank you for suggesting it. I'll add that Yuki used time-stop in this one abducting incident to try to keep civilian casualties to a minimum - letting Galus see this power in full display at this juncture since it's going to be make-or-break time for Galus very soon anyway. If this logic works all-around for you, I'll probably have it stated explicitly in the next chapter or the one following it.

The main thrust I'm getting at is that you've put yourself in the awkward position now of convincing your readers that Yuki can't just stop time and kill anyone in the world whenever she (or, rather, Galus) wants to. And why she never used it before. These are questions your readers WILL have in mind while reading your fanfic, and if they're never properly addressed it could leave many with an unsatisfied feeling. You told ME that using Time Stop might drain Yuki to the point where she's unable to further fight. You did not tell the readers. Even if you did, though, consider that apparently she still has enough in her to Data Drain - so why not use that energy to walk up to a target and snap his or her neck like a twig? Anyway, enough on that - I'm sure you understand my words of caution by now. Don't give a power to a character unless you're prepared not only to tell the audience why she uses it, but also why she DOESN'T use it. (As my bank robber example indicated, many comic book authors are TERRIBLE at this.)  

I see your point. Unforseen developments in the canon TMoSH really threw a monkey wrench into my plot plans.

Lastly, I wanted to apologize for not addressing the Haruhi/Fatora scene.

No problem.

I guess I didn't want to let you down even further, since I knew you probably wrote that scene with me in mind. Since you asked directly, though, I was pretty ho-hum about it. I felt that Haruhi was entirely too flustered by Fatora's proposal. Haruhi's a girl who's used to the unconventional - YEARNS for the unconventional, in fact. I'd think that she'd find Fatora's offer to be interesting (even if she didn't want to partake) rather than embarrassing. Even more importantly, Haruhi's an extraordinarily dominant personality, much like Fatora herself is. It was a bit disheartening to see her so meek in her refusal.

Hhmmm... I respectively find this to be a bit odd. You and Rowan both earlier argued that Haruhi wouldn't have it in her to express romantic feelings for Jinnai, even if she had been keeping them in for a couple of days. Now you're arguing that Haruhi wouldn't be the least bit embarassed being outright propositioned for sex?

It's ironic - my inner thinking when you and Rowan objected to the first romantic Haruhi/Jinnai scene was "Haruhi isn't a meek wallflower. If she's interested in someone, she's going to make it known". Incidentally, this is one of my main issues with the canon Haruhi/Kyon pairing - if Haruhi wanted Kyon as a boyfriend, I think she would have responded to the "dream kiss" between the two of them much more responsively than she did.

Truthfully, I wanted to write Haruhi being a bit of a playful aggressor towards Fatora (since that had been your specific request)... but I just couldn't do it; I just couldn't picture even Haruhi being like that so soon after suffering romantic hurts at Jinnai's words. So, I felt the next best thing was to have Fatora be aggressive towards Haruhi (which I had no problem whatsoever picturing).

I guess the scene fell flat for you. Oh well - at least you liked Megraton of Cyberica. I'm glad you found that to be a cute cameo.


All in all, I guess we just disagree a little bit on Haruhi's canon character.

Her reactions to Fatora can make sense, of course. It more or less fits with Haruhi's desperate desire to make peace - since Fatora's one of the folks she has to convince, it makes sense that she'd be a bit careful in letting Fatora down easy. She's chosen diplomacy and debate as tools for convincing the alliance because the situation is so serious (old, non-serious Haruhi would have chosen tools like intimidation and blackmail to get her way ).

That was a lot of my thinking, too.

Anyway, I hope all this serves as constructive conversation, rather than just bringing you further down. The video, by the way, was cute. "Bunny demon" indeed...

I'm glad you liked it!

In all seriousness, Jinnai's choice of words there (when activating Ifurita) were telling to me. Perhaps it reflects his ideal woman - "deadly little bunny demon". Kind of fits Haruhi to a tee.

I think his taste in women leans much more towards short/cute/adorable than tall/sexy/voluptuous - this also might serve to explain his frenzied rejections of the tall and voluptuous Diva's advances in Alternate World. It also might help to explain why he seemed to get along a bit better with shorter/cuter Kalia than taller/more voluptuous Ifurita.


Anyway, I really appreciate your reply here. It's actually served to pick me up a bit.

28

El-Hazard Online / Re: The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

« on: June 26, 2009, 01:41:10 pm »

Edit: To make up for the bad chapter, Spanner, I'm going to share with you a (hopefully) comedic vid that I made a long time ago actually... but which actually kind of fits well with the mood of most of this fanfic. Funny how the idea for this fanfic came a long time after I decided to make this vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8thmGjj6QI&feature=channel_page

Note: An anime called Shakugan no Shana is also featured in the vid - for the purposes of this thread the first 18 seconds are the most important.


I hate to say it, Spanner, but I'm kind of disappointed at your disappointment.

Not a word on the Fatora/Alielle/Haruhi bit? The tip of the hat to your Kyon/Fatora suggestions to me? Or Sensei Fujisawa's heroics for Haruhi?

All of that was written with you in mind - especially the Fatora/Alielle/Haruhi scene.

And... wow... you and Rowan both care a lot about original character names. With Nanoha Inverse I can kind of understand it - she's an important character in the story - but the Ranma in my story is just a flashback character with out any lines at all.

Furthermore, Ranma has fought more girls than Akane. He's also fought Shampoo, Kodachi Kuno, Ukyo, Mariko, etc...

I can personally conceive of a younger Ranma - a Ranma raised brutally by Genma - being a bit of a bully. Certainly, he wasn't exactly nice to Ryoga, was he?

You and Rowan seemed to be pretty big Ranma fans, and hence I thought you'd like the little cameo name. Also, it's obviously not the real Ranma, or Makoto would not have beat him. The Ranma name was just for a little laugh - I never expected you to take it so seriously. I guess I was wrong there.


As for the knife stick - It's this:

http://www.brethart.com/files/images/bigbossman.thumbnail.jpg


Some people in law enforcement use a tough blunt instrument called a knife stick (like the one this pro wrestler based on law enforcement officers uses) in trying to subdue criminals. A wooden knife stick is a blunt weapon, not a cutting one - a wooden blunt weapon can still be effective, just like a baseball bat used as a weapon can be.  


As for Yuki... Spanner, I already showed her getting defeated (or at least forced to retreat) by Sensei Fujisawa and Mikuru Asahina; I thought it was about time that Yuki actually won a fight outright for a change. What would make you think that Yuki could defeat all of the El Hazard protagonists given her earlier defeats at the hands of Fujisawa and Mikuru? Beyond that, there's no good reason whatsoever for Galus to think that Yuki could single-handedly defeat all of the El Hazard protagonists given Yuki's problems with Fujisawa and Mikuru. Hence Galus' entire theory is that there's too many powerful variables on the protagonist side, so instead of trying to always fight them on their home turf where his level of control is limited, he's trying to drag them to HIS home turf where his level of control is considerably greater. It makes perfectly good sense to me.

In fact, the Black Knights of Zala were set up to distract as many of the El Hazard protagonists as possible so Yuki could zoom in on Haruhi, and take her captive, with out having to hopelessly try to fight all of the El Hazard protagonists.

Yes, Yuki can time freeze and data drain, but who knows how much those moves drains her - and if it leaves her with much power left to fight on with?

Also, Yuki defeated Haruhi in part because Haruhi hesitated. An El Hazard protagonist may not have hesitated.

Canon Yuki, IIRC, has commented on how using time freeze drains her. It's also clear that she had to expand a lot of effort to data drain Ryoko Asakura.


As for re-hashed scenes - I consider it important character and plot development. I'm also developing a friendship between Haruhi and Nanami - you don't do that in one short scene in one chapter. All of this is also to try to make up for my earlier problems with Nanami that you yourself pointed out.

Also, I simply felt that the beginning with Haruhi and Nanami was the most believable way for the story to progress.

And as for the Jinnai scene - maybe I should have left that out. The key with that scene, for me, was to hammer home the fact that Haruhi now means as much to Jinnai as Makoto does - only in a diametrically opposing way, of course. I hoped that contrasting positive memories that Jinnai has of Haruhi with the well-established negative memories that Jinnai has of Makoto would do a good job of that. I had hoped that it would prove to be striking, and furthermore, I felt that it would serve to put the fanfic into broader perspective.  

Edit: This is NOT the Jinnai/Groucho heart-to-heart that I was talking about. THAT discussion is coming up in the next chapter. This scene was mostly to show Jinnai's inner thinking.


All of this said, though - I thank you for continuing to read and review my fanfic. I actually felt that Chapter 17 was my best chapter - I felt that it had action, comedy, drama, touching character interactions on the protagonist side, lines for almost every named canon character featured in the fanfic, good in-fanfic character development for several characters. I'm genuinely taken aback by your almost uniformly negative review of the chapter.

Oh well - you liked Chapter 15 way more than I thought you would (I myself thought you'd call it a filler chapter) and now you disliked Chapter 17 (by far the most eventful chapters of all of them) way more than I thought you would.

Chapter 17...

This one started off a little bit weak. While Nanami's amazement of the progress Haruhi has made with her brother was interesting in chapter 15, seeing it again here seemed like it might be rehashing it a bit too much.

I was also a bit befuddled at the inclusion of Ranma Saotome as the identity of Nanami's childhood tormentor. Her description of the bully doesn't seem to match the personality of the original Ranma very closely. While I don't place Ranma on the glorious pedestal some fanfiction authors do, there's definitely certain depths he won't step to. He's more inclined to beat up bullies than be a bully himself, and the only girl he ever (deliberately) picks on is Akane - and his reasons for picking on her are pretty complicated.

So, the way that it comes across is that you created a character, and then just slapped on a popular character's name for the heck of it. That's not very good practice; if you're going to include an obvious cameo name, it ought to at least slightly match the character.

To be honest, I had the same beef with Nanoha when she was first introduced as a heartless assassin; it's like you were just assigning a popular name for no good reason. Eventually Nanoha developed a bit and became a character that resembled her cameo source to a degree, so it wasn't so bad.

If you're going to cameo a character's name, you really ought to include a bit of of the character's CHARACTER as well. Otherwise, as in my case, the reader will become confused.

In this particular case, if you were going to create a bully character, and you really wanted to plug Ranma 1/2, you might have wanted to consider using a Ranma character that actually IS a bully - Pantyhose Tarou, for instance (though he's a little bit of an obscure character).

Anyway, that's five paragraphs devoted to one little throwaway chunk of the story, so I'll move on.

I was slightly disappointed with the Jinnai/Groucho scene. I assume this is the heart-to-heart you mentioned as a potential scene? It seemed more like Groucho talking at Jinnai and him railing at the world and wrestling with his own inner turmoil. To be honest, I'm not sure exactly what I was expecting from this scene - and it may be far more appropriate that Jinnai be able to work things through on his own than have a heart-to-heart anyway. Meh, I don't know what I'm saying; it's just a bit off, somehow. (Gawd, that's the most useless kind of criticism!)

I was a bit lukewarm when you originally presented the idea of doing the peace summit on-screen, but this section actually turned out to be pretty entertaining. You did a pretty good job of creating interesting leaders to share their viewpoints. (I also chuckled a bit at the inclusion of "Megraton of Cyberia" as an aggressive and vengeful ruler; it was a cute cameo, and much more appropriate than the Ranma Saotome one.)

(Oh, as a bit of a nitpick, the onset of the meeting seemed to indicate that Rune and Fatora were the only females present. In the summit that occurred during the first episode of the OAV, though, there was at least one other female leader that I can recall; there may have been more, as well.)

Then, the terrorist incursion. I rolled my eyes a bit when one of the terrorist's whipped out a "wooden knife stick" to counter Kyon's magnetic powers. It just sounds so silly. I think a bit of research here might have been in order to pick an ACTUAL non-metal weapon. Or even just not to have mentioned the special traits of the weapon at all. Something like this, perhaps:


I also took a page from Niel Stephenson's "Snow Crash" and made the knife from glass rather than wood; it's hard to imagine a slashing weapon made from wood being all that terribly effective. Of course, a glass knife would be harder to set on fire. Perhaps a wooden spear would be a better choice of weapon, or even a club. A "wooden knife stick" is honestly kind of hard to even picture. I kept imagining that the guy pulled out an ordinary twig that had had the end shaved to a point for roasting marshmallows.

Then, Yuki appears and Haruhi transforms into Ifurita to fight her! And... gets utterly schooled before she can even make a move. Yuki seems to be pretty scarily powerful. If Galus know's Yuki is capable of this kind of thing, why doesn't he just have her slaughter all the good guys except for Haruhi? I honestly can't see any way that his plans can be anything but helped by the elimination of our heroes, and the summit leaders for good measure. This kind of thing is a bit troublesome in comic books, as well; the authors give the villians AMAZING powers that they could use to do pretty much whatever they want - and then send them off to rob a bank.

Hopefully you have some reason in mind as to why Galus is holding back. And hopefully that reason goes beyond merely wanting to have the heroes broken at his feet so he can gloat at them.

Anyway, all in all I'm afraid I have to say this chapter was a bit weaker than many of the ones you've done, especially when compared to the entertaining previous chapter. Still, the plot rolls on. I look forward to seeing what you have in mind now that Galus is luring our heroes (and possibly Jinnai, as well?) into his trap!

Edit in reply for Rowan:

Concerning Jinnai in Chapter 16 - my perception of his character (OVA version especially) is a bit complex. I think that he honestly sees himself as the villain, at least in relation to how most view him. I don't think that he views this as incompatible with being the Messenger of God.  I think that he has chosen that role since Makoto has made himself the hero; hence the best way to oppose Makoto is to either beat him at his own game (which Jinnai has given up on, I believe) or to rather be the villain to his hero.

Now, at the same time, he wants Haruhi to be his perfect ally. For his romance to work with her, and for him to continue to be the villain to Makoto's hero, Haruhi has to think of herself as a villain as well; otherwise, Haruhi and Jinnai have a moral alignment gap that simply can't be bridged.

Beyond that... IIRC, OVA Jinnai made the following line to Diva...

"Pure evil... <chuckles>... a good backup!" when referring to Ifurita, based on what Diva told him about her.

So that's my reasoning with Jinnai in Chapter 16.

29

El-Hazard Online / Re: The El Hazard of Haruhi Suzumiya

« on: June 25, 2009, 09:54:02 pm »

Sorry about the wait, but the length of Chapter 17 might make up for it...    

Here it is!: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=269068&page=6


Special Notes: I've created a heck of a lot of El Hazard nations out of thin air, since the only ones I know of are Roshtaria, Gannan, and Durasland (and three nations just doesn't seem like enough to me). If, however, there are actual canon El Hazard nations that I'm forgetting, I'll gladly put them in place in some of the fanfic nation names I'll come up with. So, I'm all ears there!

Also, I decided to throw just about everything into Chapter 17 after all. I just felt that the El Hazard protagonist cast hadn't been showcased properly in a long time, and that it was time to change that. I hope that I succeeded there. Also, I was actually experimenting with a Jinnai/Groucho scene - not even sure if I was going to include it - and a part of it was too good to leave out, I felt.


Rowan - I'm going to type up a reply to you tomorrow. In the meantime, though, how does Pierre Chamberlain sound as a replacement name for Winston de Gaulle?

Pierre is there just because I like that name, by the way.

30

El-Hazard Online / Re: Shaylapie

« on: June 24, 2009, 04:40:46 pm »

Wonderful AMV! I enjoyed that a lot. Very creative.