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  Topics - Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
1  Games / Pic of the Moment / Pic of the Moment Rules and History on: October 23, 2010, 03:35:35 PM


With the lack of activity in this forum, I don't expect anyone to really pick this up, but it should now be possible thanks to the fact that it's now technically just another part of the forum.  So on that note, any Admin/mod will still enforce rules:

  • First post must contain only a single image using the forum attachment system* and must feature El-Hazard characters; it can be a reposted screenshot from the show or something more creative.  NSFW worse than what was on the show is most likely inappropriate.
  • Don't post an actual reference to the screenshot (that's not funny!) and don't post general commentary (at least not without attempting to "play")

* The reason for using the forum attachment system is control -- this game is based on one I had found years ago on another defunct El-Hazard forum, but in that case the images posted by users were on a variety of hosts and many of the images were missing, which of course ruins the humor!

Note that this forum section, unlike the others, is currently set to show these posts in date order.  That means new replies do not bump a thread to the top.  I'm kind of on the fence about this because it means new replies will generally go unnoticed (except the RSS feed?) but it does preserve the original ordering of the PoTMs.


"Pic of the Moment" was a "game" that existed on later versions of the El-Hazard site where we'd post a screenshot (and later image collages to keep it interesting) out of context and see what people could come up with.  Originally, much like the rest of the site before it was Wiki-fied, this was powered by a custom, in-house set of Perl-CGI scripts.  When the rest of the site was brought online as a Wiki, PoTM was still being rendered using the archaic site-side scripts.  (And, until last night, was a gateway backward into the old content, which was interesting to say the least.)  Furthermore, while the old Perl-CGI website integrated a user login with the former YaBB forum, the shift to the current SMF forum broke that old system and I saw no need to fix it, making replies to PoTMs impossible.

Having both the Wiki and old site content essentially meant that we were holding two versions of the website, one dormant.  (And that's an understatement because various pieces of previous incarnations of the website actually still existed in the old labyrinth of directories!)  Since nothing else from the old site was going to be used anymore, and that reverse gateway would just be confusing to new visitors, I finally got the nerve to delete all remains of the pre-Wiki version of the website, and wrote a Perl script to import all of the old "Pic of the Moment" images and posts into the forum here.  Granted it's not a perfect transition, and also explains why all threads are posted by the imaginary "PoTM" user and all replies have the same date as the original posting due to lack of per-reply date tracking in the old system.

This strange "Pic of the Moment" PoTM is incidentally a screenshot of how it used to look!  (What were we thinking by posting that one though?)
2  General / El-Hazard Online / 2006: Tides are Changing; MP3s removed! on: January 06, 2006, 01:29:47 AM
This site will no longer forever and ever carry MP3s of soundtracks.  The main reasons I've decided upon this is:

1) I'm really unsure about the legality of it (but who's certain of any real legality of these things?); I mean, I'd say my Saturn porting was probably pretty illegal too, but I figure the soundtrack distribution was more in the spotlight since that's the current media frenzy as well as the fact that those are actually still sold, while the Saturn game is, quite obviously, not.

2) Torrents pretty much rule the scene anymore.  (Not that I'd be encouraging any followup illegal activities ;) )  Why should I bother giving out my paid-for bandwidth by something that's already services elsewhere with probably greater results?

3) I wanted server disk space reclaimed for other webserver hosting.

An interesting thing, the MP3s were once one of the primary draws of this site over others.  But now I think it's reached a level of maturity where it contains such a diverse and heavy set of content it doesn't need cheap tricks to prove itself anymore.  I've also come to realize there is almost nothing left I can do for it.  The only undocumented El-Hazard artifacts are scattered thingies here and there like CD image collections, other meager third party products like pencil boards or figures, things like that.  Most of those would require spending lots of money at aution sites, perhaps even over in Japan (using one of those middleman services which pick up and ship out the item for me at cost!)  

El-Hazard Online is pretty much only going to be maintained by me, but El-Hazard will acquire no more of my money and very little of my time.  I'm pleased with where the site has managed to grow to and I have nothing else to really add.  Of course, submissions are still welcome, if anyone has anything spectacular to add.

I mentioned before about making "sister sites", and I think that's where I'm headed.  In case you missed the other topic w(hich should still be on the first page right now), the "sister sites" will be any site which chooses to reside on this server and use the same page generator scripts as EHOL has been using for a long time now.  I'm thinking my first "sister site" project might be one on Azumanga Daioh as sort of a warm-up exercise.  Granted, the series is so popular that I can't imagine making an "Azumanga Online" that's going to be any trump card on the internet, but I figure I'll give my two cents as well as try to document the various fangames and third party software that got generated for it.  (There is a lot, and in Japan fangames apparently have an acceptance equal to the doujinshi artists, which is awesome.)

Well, that's all for now.  I'll post a link later if I get anything done with the AD sister site anytime soon.
3  General / El-Hazard Online / Thinking: System Update for Site Splits [UPDATE] on: November 06, 2005, 03:19:52 PM
As I briefly noted here,, I'm considering expanding my server to be opened to other anime titles that all use the same basic left-side menu buttons, right side content, top-side customized graphics for the series (but same basic layout, I assume for ease of integration and consistency.)

See, the way it is right now, it already loads simple HTML files that lack standalone header tags (e.g. <title>, <body>, etc.) Example, see the trinkets page as just itself:

These headerless files are loaded into the default table space that's always to the right of the generated menu buttons.  This has worked pretty well without actually resorting to a frames-based page that seem to upset so many people (and tend to not allow my flashy graphics to stay generally in place. :P)

The point is, all that's needed to add a content page is to have someone write up their article or whatever in very simple HTML and upload it to have it instantly integrated.

The only problem is right now you have to do everything by FTP and configure long, semi-complicated looking links -- Example, the real trinkets link:


-- and there's still a lack of actual centralized sorting or control.  Eventually I'd like to build an interface panel (maybe over XMas break?) and then give privledged access to the "underground" by some security system.

FYI, here's what I'm thinking in terms of a centralized control panel:

* Specify a whole slew of buttons to make a "menu" (note Trinkets link has "menu=3"; you can play with that link if you'd like and see the other numbers)

* Include ability to customize buttons of menu (probably will have to get rid of graphical buttons, or at least substitute them with tables that look similar) so that new buttons can be made without manually making them from the graphical template.

* Obviously specify each button's destination

* Have ability to upload the bare HTML pages in appropriate directories.

* Ability to upload images or other media that may be desired in the page.

All of it controled in some central panel.  It shouldn't be too hard, just has to be done.

What I'm not sure is what the security of it should be.  Should it only be granted to long-term members we trust?  Should it be allowed to any yahoo who can pass the Fujisawa exam?  (Giving freer general populace editing something like a Wiki.)  Really I'm looking to have more updates happening without me explicity having to do the work cause I know I fall behind on emails and whatnot.   :-/  I still have some stuff in my inbox that's months old now.  But because of the lack of interface, it takes time to upload and link material, especially new stuff, so I get lethargic and fall behind.

Another idea is mixing the two, such that instead of allowing outsiders to directly edit the pages, they're allowed to put their new materials in a "drop box" or submit corrections to some sort of "suggestion box".  Then myself and some of you guys could act as moderators and decide whether to accept or reject the material.  Accepting it would include selecting where to drop it in.  With all that, there could even be automatic simple news logged to some file that would immediately notify of updates without you needing to explicitly write it up.

Any suggestions or "go for its"?
4  General / El-Hazard Online / Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL on: November 21, 2004, 10:30:36 PM
SuperSonic227: Greetings.
I am Jinnai: Been a while
SuperSonic227: Indeed, but I have some very interesting news to pass on to you.
I am Jinnai: Alright
SuperSonic227: This pas weekend, I went to a convention called "Anime Sound and Vision", and Hiroaki Inoue (Producer for AIC Studio) was there. He had worked in a large number of titles over the years, including the Tenchi series...and possibly various parts of El-Hazard. However, the interesting part was when someone asked him about El-Hazard, and he said that yet another OVA was being very highly considered at the moment, and production of it may begin (although he sounded more like it WILL begin) after they're finished with some other projects first.
I am Jinnai: Oh, that is interesting
SuperSonic227: Since he mentioned that anime titles that are in the works these days often take the american audience into some consideration, I told him that american fans very favorably wanted another continuation to the OVA.
SuperSonic227: He said that the sentiments in Japan were the same.
SuperSonic227: He also said that planning of the next El-Hazard has not begun YET...but, again, sounded very confident about it happening.
I am Jinnai: Hmm, interesting. Consideirng I'm pretty sure the Japanese were the ones to have the plug pulled on the OAV3
SuperSonic227: *shrugs*
SuperSonic227: Perhaps the recent attention of the newer Tenchi series revived interest.
I am Jinnai: It's possible
SuperSonic227: Take it all with a grain of salt for now, but still...this is the best possibility to indicate something new since it came from the Horses's own mouth.
I am Jinnai: Indeed
SuperSonic227: Furthermore, his translator knew of your site. ;P
I am Jinnai: Seriously?
SuperSonic227: Yes.
SuperSonic227: El-hazardonline.net
I am Jinnai: Now that's amusing. :P He say anything interesting about it?
SuperSonic227: Not in particular, I just mentioned I knew the person who ran it when I heard her mention it.
I am Jinnai: She mentioned it in what context? An example of American appeal or what?
SuperSonic227: It was actually referring to an e-mail account or something, I just heard her mention it casually in a conversation. Then I mentioned to her that I knew the person running it.
SuperSonic227: and took the chance to say to her and Inoue that fans in the west wanted to see an OVA sequal.
I am Jinnai: I'm just trying to figure out who knows it and if it matters
SuperSonic227: Beyond this, I don't think I can help figure much else out.
SuperSonic227: I'm not sure if she even mentioned it to HIM.
I am Jinnai: Alright, fair enough. It's just interesting that anyone in any position knew anything.
SuperSonic227: But, again, what's important is that the higher-ups know we exist.
I am Jinnai: I always wondered if I'd happen to be noticed at some point. ;P
SuperSonic227: I wouldn't be surprised if you were.
I am Jinnai: Okay, I guess we'll just wait and see now.
SuperSonic227: Again, they're paying more attention to the american fan bases because of just how much anime sells over here now.
SuperSonic227: DVD sales in the US are multiple times what they are in Japan...especially for certian types of franchises.

Reminder of course: Just be careful, he's confident in this news... but it's not an official confirmation by any means.  Plan for the series/OVA/whatever itself haven't yet begun, but were talked of it confidently enough like it WILL happen and is officially being planned.  (I.E. Designs, writing and the like would begin after other projects currently in the works are done.)
5  General / El-Hazard Online / Oct. 23rd, eh?  Forum Tech Discussion Time! on: November 07, 2004, 11:11:33 PM
Sorry guys.   -_-  My backing up just isn't frequent enough, I guess.  For anyone who's new to this, my host occasionally goes into a "lockdown" mode where the backup partition of their server maxes out and all disk writes fail in a destructive manner, by zeroing out files.  Such as the board index, which results in the 0 / 0 / NA forum headers and could destroy your accounts if you modify them during the lockdown period through profile modifications and whatnot.  It's the only problem I've had with an otherwise great cheap host.  Note, for example, that the major parts of the site fortunately continue to work just fine.  But we're missing recent posts and other threads have inaccurate post counts which will cause display errors and it's very tedious for me to have to go through and correct them by hand.

But this is becoming a hassle to keep up with the forum during crash times.  So I'm asking you all -- would you like a seperation of the forum from the main site onto a different server?  (I'll probably just use my personal webserver I maintain for avatars and whatnot.)  If so, here's the major problem: Accounts of the site will be very difficult to keep in sync with the forum (across two different servers), so there probably will no longer be any way of using shared accounts between forum and site.  So I'm thinking of revising our current systems and I'd like your input:

My idea is something like I run a forum which is just a forum; your accounts exist there as forum accounts and that's that.  But should I have seperate site accounts?  Or should I just allow all files universal access?  I mean, I do have 100GB transfer per month, and at most we usually only get up to maybe ... 2GB per month.   ^^;  So maybe I shouldn't worry about it like I used to.  Plus I don't El-Hazard is that popular right now that the following would occur -- I'm just afraid of someone out there linking to my site as a place to get goodies (where I imagine a surge of interest for free goodies could overload the transfer).  It'd also deprecate the MrWhat-powered Fujisawa Exam, which just isn't nice.  (Obviously I could find other use for that, though.  If nothing else, a status on the would-be new forum.)

Admittedly, this YaBB is also, by a technical standpoint, kind of archaic.  This could be a chance to move up to a newer, better forum type if you wish.

So... discuss.  And hope we don't have a disk lockdown again any time soon before this is resolved.   ^^;
6  General / Non-El-Hazard Topical Discussions / SERVER OUTAGE FORUM CORRUPTION on: July 06, 2004, 09:04:09 AM
As I noted on the news page, yesterday the host we're on had a disk space problem (:P) and their system went into a write-protect lockdown.  Unforuntately, anyone who tried to do anything that would cause a disk write (i.e. register/post) would create zero-sized files.  This included this forum section!  I just spent about an hour and a half writing some scripts to regenerate the post table, instead of doing something fun before work today.  Basically it created a difference list, where it sorted through ALL message files and matched ones that already existed in the main and RPG forums.

Some information about posts, such as most recent poster and such, may be displayed incorrectly.  Also some posts from a temporary forum have come back since the posts themselves were never deleted and included in the difference list.  Oh well.
7  General / Non-El-Hazard Topical Discussions / Troubled Windows - Anime Something on: June 11, 2004, 12:33:25 AM
It apparently is just known as "Troubled Windows".  This site has a short English description of it along with mini-bios on most of the characters:

This site is full of art (some of it bordering on hentai, so viewer beware... why anyone would really make operating systems sexual is beyond me):

This will specifically access the only six flash files I know of it that was custom made by various fans; two of which are an intro and an ending, respectively, if this were to be an actual anime series:

A quick image depicting all the characters relevant to Windows OS maturation (C+P):

This depicts the apparent "favorite" character, ME -- "An incredibly naive individual, ME is unreliable due to the fact that she has a tendency to fail at everything; always with comedic results." -- in some little case instance (translated comic, C+P):

PC vs. Mac -- Classic.  (translated comics, C+P):

So, anyway, I find this series to be very amusing, from what little scraps I've seen.  Whaddya think?  My main question is, is this a doujinshi (i.e. professionally produced books and such), or limited only to internet fan art (copy of a copy of a fad as noted...?)  I'm thinking it's the latter, but I'm trying to get a better grasp of what this even IS.  :P
8  General / El-Hazard Online / Fujisawa's Final Exam: Complete! on: May 29, 2004, 12:36:02 AM
Anyway, to refresh anyone who forgot, the EHAT (spin of SAT, y'know, the test) is a test that would be the alternative to contributing to the site.  The EHAT has been given the fun name of "Fujisawa-Sensei's El-Hazard Final Exam".  

Contributer status is nice to flaunt since you get to all look important (and MrWhat is just ... beyond only deserving it as a status, but alas I haven't anything better at the moment.)  However, it's main reason of existence is to keep hands off what would probably be the more desirable media of the site (MP3s in particular) from random internet hunters.  I mean, I wouldn't mind except that it takes away from our monthly allocation of bandwidth, and it's not really fair for others.  So you have to know El-Hazard before you partake of the goodies.  Besides, I've almost hit the $2,000 limit of unverified PayPal, and I know 90% of that was towards El-Hazard merchandise.  :P  So I think I have a say how things work around here.  ;D

All you of current non-contributer status may have a field day trying to get up to par.

The quiz current takes a random 20 of 417 questions (all formulated by MrWhat) from all video versions of El-Hazard and also mixes up the individual answers.  The test is 4 option multiple choice.  After you select all of your answers, you hit the submission button and get a grade.  You get both a percentage and eventually a matching image with some type of witty, El-Hazard-y response.  

Guess whose name is one higher than Jinnai's?

Very good, but you could still study for a higher grade.

Why does life have to be so hard in every world?

You tried so hard! Waaah!

Oh, so you think I'm stupid!?

Okay, here's the thing itself:

Anyone's score (or lack thereof) can be found by looking at their profile.  Anyone who already took the test and reported their score in this thread had it applied.  Of course, you're allowed to beat your score and your highest score is always safe even if you botch on a second attempt.  Have fun, guys.

At least I didn't do anything truly evil such as Tim's suggestion of a 30 minute limit.  (TIM - Which I must remind you that this was just a silly little comment because I took my time to get a perfect score... it was NOT meant to be taken seriously.)
9  General / Non-El-Hazard Topical Discussions / American Anime Brand Replating on: February 03, 2004, 03:56:31 PM
And I've stolen this topic from another forum called "The Moogle Cavern" including the author's original comments (I'd link it, but you can't view that forum without registration); there's just something so striking about this --

MCMB Copy Begin...

...course it won't be called Tokyo Mew Mew--rather Hollywood Mew Mew instead.

According to an an Animation World Network (AWN) article about the 2004 tv season, 4Kids Entertainment has licensed Tokyo Mew Mew and will be airing the show during the Fox Box programming block on Fox. North American children will, however, not be introduced to Tokyo Mew Mew, but rather Hollywood Mew Mew. Regarding the process of localization, 4Kids CEO Al Kahn stated, "By the time we localize the programs kids don't even know they're from Japan any more." The statement was exclusively in reference to children's programming, Kahn stated that he felt that labels such as "Anime" are for adults and mean nothing to children.

According to Kahn, Tokyo Mew Mew, along with another show called Winx Club, is an attempt to attract a more female demographic to Fox Box. &#8220;Most people seem to have taken a boys' action, or a neuter position. It's obvious our business is not only entertainment but merchandising as well, and we think there's a real void in what's available for girls. It's an area where there's a lack of product in the U.S. We're going to be adding a couple of those types of shows to the FOX BOX in 04.&#8221; He explains that Tokyo Mew Mew is meant to attract viewers of both sexes by providing girls with empowered female heroines and, at the same time, entertaining boys with "cute babes" and lots of action. Although it is aimed at a significantly older demographic, Kahn points to Xena as an example of a show that attracts both men and women.

AWN also asked Kahn if, with his company's goal of attracting a larger audience of girls, he will also look to gain an older audinece by importing "more challenging" titles aimed at an older demographic. While not stating that 4Kids will import titles aimed at an older demographic, he did forecast that such titles would become available in the appropriate timeslots and he stated that 4Kids is looking to "expand our programming opportunities in order to do different things at different times.&#8221;

The entire 10-page article, 2003 TV Wrap-Up, What's in Store for 2004, can be read here.

Source: ANN

That last part makes me fear for the potential futures of One Piece and Naruto.

... MCMB Copy End

Read this again:
"By the time we localize the programs kids don't even know they're from Japan any more."

There's something so very wrong feeling about all this...
10  General / El-Hazard Online / El-Hazard Online Forum Avatar Uploader on: January 24, 2004, 03:22:34 PM
The uploader has been patched for the new server:


I fixed it and reuploaded all avatars on the old server.  HOWEVER, I did not fix your individual profiles; that's up to you!


will now be


NOTE: Since EHDL2 has a limited bandwidth, offsite linking is not allowed.  If you were formerly using avatars/images on other forums, this will no longer work!  Sorry.
11  General / Non-El-Hazard Topical Discussions / Quiz Script Prototype on: January 20, 2004, 02:41:34 AM


I just did.  And I spent the previous 5 hours or so setting this up.   ^^;  Brain hurts...

Well, anyway, it's not done yet... currently it's processing ALL of MrWhat's questions, which is far too much and also not what was planned.  Eventually I want to have it only display perhaps 1/4 of the total available questions per section and of course have them in a random order.

Speaking of sections, I broke the questions up into five sections as follows:

El-Hazard Knowledge
El-Hazard Events
Little Things
Shinonome Events

I don't like this category order, but again, I was just prototyping the actual system.  :P

Anyway.  Each one is described briefly in the test as to its purpose.  (Click the link to see.)  

Now, I'd like some input.

1) Formatting -- should this look special, like a test sheet or something?

2) Section names/descriptions -- good/bad?

3) Should sections be weighted?  I.E. The "little things" section has ~40 questions, the "Shinonome Events" section has ~10.  Should they all be individually percentage based?  Currently they're all "1 point" towards the total.

As long as the categories are OK, I'd like to see any future quiz submissions formatted under those headers.  Half the trouble was going through the whole pool of questions to sort them out.  ;)  

Also, MrWhat, I'm very glad you provided a consistent four answers; saved me a lot of time.  But next time, if you plan to do anymore, try to mix up the answers and asterisk the correct one for when I have to reformat them for the script program.  Not that I can't answer them, of course ;) , but less time spent thinking and more time reformatting gets it done quicker.  Answer "D" was the correct one in 99% of the questions which I guess was deliberate but I had to reorganize and all.   ^^;

Other than that, it looks great.  The final grading sheet probably should not tell you which sections you lost points in; you'll just end up with a percentage and its up to you to know where you're weaknesses are.  (And to help so you don't keep clicking BACK on your browser to change each answer in each question especially on ones you didn't know for sure / etc.)
12  General / El-Hazard Online / Re: El-hazard RPG on: January 15, 2004, 05:17:48 PM

If you're serious ... then anything I've done in this department is like totally blown out of the water.  Provided that, firstly, you're truthful and, secondly, it's good.

Even though you're not releasing it yet, can you get a screenshot or something?  Please?
13  General / El-Hazard Online / Conqueror Jinnai performed by Stephen Moellering on: January 10, 2004, 08:00:20 PM
Based on MrWhat's Japanese translation of The Conqueror Jinnai Katsuhiko, Stephen, a buddy of mine I've known for quite some time who's done several applauded skits at anime cons recently, has taken the translation as it was and twisted it into English statements that for the most part fit the song quite well and then sung it aloud to the Karaoke version for all of us.  I think this came out totally excellent for something he did in a matter of a few hours.


His lyrics:

Mighty God has chosen...to inform me
To control the entire Earth, and to let the people put their faith in me!

All of the nations will wait eagerly for me
to become their eternal, universal, great emperor.

The magnificent riches and beauty of this world
is as easy to obtain, as a melon is from the grocery store!

Let out Your Loud....Cheers for me! For I am Katsuhiko Jinnai!
The Entire Universe...Will become my own Back Yard!

My single objective will be too Conquer you ALL!

Treachery against fathers, conquest over the mothers
Glory over the brother, and abandonedment of the sister's rights!

When Devotees of the Shrine will arrive durring the Emergency
of The mighty Thundering Eye! They will see the name of Jinnai there!

As the Conquered nations join together under my name
The shame of their defeat, will break the hearts of their people!

From the VERY first blow, up until the Empire Blooms!
I'll have a good feeling in my heart, like flower viewing!

My single objective will be too Conquer you ALL!
14  General / El-Hazard Online / New server - EHDL2 on: January 04, 2004, 11:00:48 PM
El-Hazard Online is finally becoming so big that I've begun moving it to a professional, paid host HasWeb over the past few months.  Thid should provide more reliable, higher performance browsing (at least for broadbanders).  It currently has a copy of all current data files up until mid-December or so.  I'd like all of you to check it out at some point.  Log in and browse random files like screenshots/etc.  Alert me of any missing files, permission denied, or 500 type errors.  The forum is the only thing I know of that is deliberately not currently configured properly.  :P


Eventually the plan is to move all of us over there permanently (using this current domain name of el-hazardonline.net when we get there).  Then my personal server will be converted into something more lightweight, such as continuing to serve our avatars, my sister's little site, and other things like that.  It's also good for us internal folk to use as a file transfer base.  

FYI, I'll probably be getting a free mapper domain though like bob.noip.com or something to that effect.  I might set up a few mini-sites of my own on some various topics I know some things about...
15  General / Non-El-Hazard Topical Discussions / About this temporary forum section... on: December 22, 2003, 10:39:47 PM
This is the easiest way I can group all current contributers into one place and get your input.  I want every piece of El-Hazard trivia that a person should know to say that they are at least a general El-Hazard fan.

This will be put together as the El-Hazard Aptitude Test, or EHATs.  Passing this test automatically grants you Contributer status.

Then there ought to be a more advanced trivia one for MP3 access.

The goal of this is so I can do away with email verification which is really just a pain since I've become so busy lately.  :P  Email verification only works -sometimes-,  and I therefore have to check every member that joins.  This hopefully will also keep more newbies who might be scared off or too lazy to be a "contributer" by the typical status.

This forum should only be seen by current contributers, so no worries there.

The tests will be multiple choice so it can be auto-graded.  I'll probably even retain your percentage score for the hell of it.  There will be randomization of answers and questions and stuff.

Now, give me trivia.  I don't care how mundane.  :P  Even the mundane is important because I'll forget about it.

Just specify if it's simple or advanced.  And please provide the correct answer especially if it's obscure.  ;)

Any questions, ask in a seperate thread in this forum only.

After I think there's enough, I'll terminate this forum section.
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