El-Hazard Online

General => El-Hazard Online => Topic started by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on November 21, 2004, 10:30:36 pm

Title: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on November 21, 2004, 10:30:36 pm
SuperSonic227: Greetings.
I am Jinnai: Been a while
SuperSonic227: Indeed, but I have some very interesting news to pass on to you.
I am Jinnai: Alright
SuperSonic227: This pas weekend, I went to a convention called "Anime Sound and Vision", and Hiroaki Inoue (Producer for AIC Studio) was there. He had worked in a large number of titles over the years, including the Tenchi series...and possibly various parts of El-Hazard. However, the interesting part was when someone asked him about El-Hazard, and he said that yet another OVA was being very highly considered at the moment, and production of it may begin (although he sounded more like it WILL begin) after they're finished with some other projects first.
I am Jinnai: Oh, that is interesting
SuperSonic227: Since he mentioned that anime titles that are in the works these days often take the american audience into some consideration, I told him that american fans very favorably wanted another continuation to the OVA.
SuperSonic227: He said that the sentiments in Japan were the same.
SuperSonic227: He also said that planning of the next El-Hazard has not begun YET...but, again, sounded very confident about it happening.
I am Jinnai: Hmm, interesting. Consideirng I'm pretty sure the Japanese were the ones to have the plug pulled on the OAV3
SuperSonic227: *shrugs*
SuperSonic227: Perhaps the recent attention of the newer Tenchi series revived interest.
I am Jinnai: It's possible
SuperSonic227: Take it all with a grain of salt for now, but still...this is the best possibility to indicate something new since it came from the Horses's own mouth.
I am Jinnai: Indeed
SuperSonic227: Furthermore, his translator knew of your site. ;P
I am Jinnai: Seriously?
SuperSonic227: Yes.
SuperSonic227: El-hazardonline.net
I am Jinnai: Now that's amusing. :P He say anything interesting about it?
SuperSonic227: Not in particular, I just mentioned I knew the person who ran it when I heard her mention it.
I am Jinnai: She mentioned it in what context? An example of American appeal or what?
SuperSonic227: It was actually referring to an e-mail account or something, I just heard her mention it casually in a conversation. Then I mentioned to her that I knew the person running it.
SuperSonic227: and took the chance to say to her and Inoue that fans in the west wanted to see an OVA sequal.
I am Jinnai: I'm just trying to figure out who knows it and if it matters
SuperSonic227: Beyond this, I don't think I can help figure much else out.
SuperSonic227: I'm not sure if she even mentioned it to HIM.
I am Jinnai: Alright, fair enough. It's just interesting that anyone in any position knew anything.
SuperSonic227: But, again, what's important is that the higher-ups know we exist.
I am Jinnai: I always wondered if I'd happen to be noticed at some point. ;P
SuperSonic227: I wouldn't be surprised if you were.
I am Jinnai: Okay, I guess we'll just wait and see now.
SuperSonic227: Again, they're paying more attention to the american fan bases because of just how much anime sells over here now.
SuperSonic227: DVD sales in the US are multiple times what they are in Japan...especially for certian types of franchises.


Reminder of course: Just be careful, he's confident in this news... but it's not an official confirmation by any means.  Plan for the series/OVA/whatever itself haven't yet begun, but were talked of it confidently enough like it WILL happen and is officially being planned.  (I.E. Designs, writing and the like would begin after other projects currently in the works are done.)
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: dooky on November 22, 2004, 12:06:14 am
Bloody buggering hell, this is potentially excellent news...

I sincerely hope that this (if it happens) will be a continuation rather than a remake. Other than that... well, it's all speculation.

Personally, I'll be hoping for the long-awaited Princess Fatora spinoff series ^_~

dooky

PS- Rob, did you get that EH/Sailor Moon thingy I sent you?
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on November 22, 2004, 12:23:32 am
Quote
PS- Rob, did you get that EH/Sailor Moon thingy I sent you?


Ah, yes I did.  I just forgot to do anything with it... such as emailing a reply.  ;D

I'm curious to know what it'll mean if my site is really known among some higher ups.  If anything at all...
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Shaylas Raven on November 23, 2004, 04:13:39 am
Now THIS is news I've been waiting to hear for a long time. Even if it still can only be considered speculation, This is way better than hearing nothing at all.  ^_^V

BTW, sorry about the new account. HasWeb went into lockdown during a profile update a few days ago and deleted my second account. So here is number three. Third time is usually the charm, eh?  -_- ^^;

Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on November 23, 2004, 08:24:54 am
When Sv4's done, I promise to make the forum changeover top priority.  ^^;
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: d.t. on November 24, 2004, 01:42:55 am
Sorry, hate to have to ask this, but... Who is SuperSonic227, and is there reason for me to believe he's not just making this up?  Sorry to be so suspicious, but I've been burned A LOT over the years...
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on November 24, 2004, 12:46:52 pm
Quote
Sorry, hate to have to ask this, but... Who is SuperSonic227, and is there reason for me to believe he's not just making this up?  Sorry to be so suspicious, but I've been burned A LOT over the years...


He's a guy I've known about four years and not too long ago attended Otakon with.  He performed custom subtitling on the Sonic X series after the dub was regarded as piss poor by the Sonic fans.  He's performed on numerous occasions at various conventions, including two performances at Otakon; one was a two-hour bit on ALL of Gundam and another was one of those on-stage thingies, forget their name.  Since he organized his two performances AND got me in to do an El-Hazard panel (free admission!) AND organized the whole scenario that would have me drive from Pittsburgh to Bethesda to Baltimore all in one day, picking him up in the process, this guy is a serious information manager and excellent planner.  He's also helped me sincerely on a game project before.  He's really 100% trustworthy.  I will fully believe him easily when he says he attended a convention like this and overheard such news.  I have no reason to doubt him.

Of course, even so, he's warned as I put in the disclaimer -- it's still just a "maybe," so nothing here shold be taken as a definite happening yet.  But there's possibility, and you should be hopeful for that.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Neil Lafrenais on November 25, 2004, 10:46:21 am
If Hayashi isn't attached to direct (which is very likely)... well, I won't be "not interested", but "less interested".

I mean, where else can the story go?
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Shaylas Raven on November 25, 2004, 11:46:34 pm
I could think of many ways it could play out in a 3rd OAV.

They could go into detail about how Makoto finally achieves his goal of bringing Ifurita back to El Hazard. Or they could have an adventure involving Earth itself. Personally Id like to see that, but I dont know if that would be the way it would play out.

Though after reading Ken Wolfe's awesome El Hazard: Earth fanfic, I dunno if any sequal could ever live up to it. That was a masterful piece of writing. But I'm sure they can pull off a great continuation.

In any case, Id rather have a new EH series than no EH at all.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Lord God Jinnai on November 26, 2004, 12:57:44 am
Quote

In any case, Id rather have a new EH series than no EH at all.


Actually, I'd rather have no El-Hazard than bad El-Hazard.

*still remembering the atrocity of Alternative World*
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Shaylas Raven on November 26, 2004, 01:05:21 am
I didnt mind AW. Great? no. Good? no. Below average at best. The plot holes really put me off at times. But I didnt hate it outright.

If they manage to seal up the holes in the 3rd OAV, then maybe I'll like it more than I did.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Saucer on November 26, 2004, 09:19:41 pm
"Potentially excellent news" indeed! I knew it would happen someday, and I kept sighting similar examples..... no let's just hope it pans out. ^^;

It's true that anime studios are finally looking at foreign markets and realizing that there is an audience outside of Japan!
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: tuffy on November 27, 2004, 01:34:12 pm
Finally, Hiroki Hayashi can get on board and create "the Magnificent Adventures of Nanami" 5 episode big-budget OAV spinoff.  ;)

But seriously, unlike Tenchi Muyo!, El-Hazard already had a fine OAV conclusion.  And unless the original (and sequel-averse) creator returns, I don't see much of a need for more - as much as it pains me to say it.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: belldandyfan on November 27, 2004, 06:38:44 pm
Ahem.. first... let me just say... prematurely... TOLDYA!!!

I posted some while back in the love triangle thread that this was a real possibility since a lot of definative Anime works were getting a lot of new attention.

Works like  Tenchi Muyo are getting picked back up from the ova plotline, Fist of the North Star is being redone as of recently, classics like One Piece are appearing on kids saturday morning cartoons in the states, And if you're a fan (like me) of Ghost in the shell you know all about the GITS TV series... and the second gig 2nd series...

oh... and for you fans of Ahh megamisama... Yes.. There is even  going to be a brand spanking new Oh My goddess TV show kicking off very soon with all the orginial voice actors from the first ova.

As has been said before... all things old are new again.

It was just a matter of time till El Hazard got picked back up .. dusted off.. and people were reminded of exactly how good it really is.

Mark my words... they will do another show of it... but the thing they have to watch out for is them dumbing it down or just churning out another "cute" anime.. El Hazard and cute do not mix IMO.

El Hazard has some small comedic moments.. but for the most part it's strength lies in it being serious, smart, and sexy

Quote
I could think of many ways it could play out in a 3rd OAV.

...In any case, Id rather have a new EH series than no EH at all.


Couldn't agree more... right up till the pref of new El hazard being better than no El Hazard..

I can't countanance crap.

That said... there are only a few ways to mess up Elhazard...

Sure fire ways to ruin El Hazard
1. Put too much emphasis on cute.
(El Hazard is not Hello Kitty, and Ifurita should not play the role of Mihoshi unless she is deliberately doing it)

2. make everyone a buncha kids (Naruto this isn't... El Hazard is an anime for young adults to adults.. young Rune Venus making goo goo eyes at Makoto is just not right.. in case you couldn't tell the TV series is not my idea of good ElHazard)

3. Send Makoto off with some other girl.. wrong.. Makoto belongs with Ifurita.. period... you mess up that chemistry.. you ruin the show.

4. Remove Fatora.. (GAH... unthinkable)

5. Have Katsuhiko not be the cackling madman he is

6. Dumb down the show... I mean come on this was a show built on the temporal paradox of time loops allowing two lovers to meet across 10000 years for the first time and for the last time in 10000 years. I mean you gotta at least have some sorta brain in your head to watch it.

7. Introduce a new character that is sure to irritate the fans.

It's such a solid show that only a few things can really mess it up...

But as you said.. there's a lot of directions they could take it.. Personally I'm in favor of a more serious and dark bent to the show.

For example.. Let's suppose it picks up a few years after AW..

(now now.. I know a lot of people have a problem with AW .. but me I think it has some interesting things in it that harken back to the time loop of Makoto and Ifurita... specifically I think that Quorul is actually their progeny.. but that's something for later discussion)

Now that Rune has a reason to support Makoto's desire to master the Eye of God, (She'd like to get her beau back, the guy that she left behind in the AW, and Makoto may be her only chance to reunite with him) it's likely that Makoto would therefore get all the support he needs to accomplish his task of retrieveing Ifurita.

Katshuhiko would of course hear of this and his measure of desperation would grow... He seek to find a way to gain some sort of equity of power ("If Makoto is reunited with that traitorous Demon God, we'll never be able to conquer the Alliance...unless..."...ect)

Now, suppose he goes off and wakes up a Demon god (Hey..he may be a fine tactician, but after waking up Ifurita and having her turn on him.. you'd think that he'd learn not to stick keystaffs into strange female demon goddesses (But then again.. he's a guy, huh)  However this Demon god is unlike any of the others we've encountered so far... it has a purpose that it plans to carry out.. and it's not to destroy the world.. but to conquer it.

I mean the whole Holy war of El Hazard was fought over something.. it had a reason... and the two sides fought each other for dominance of power over El Hazard... it didn't just happen.

Okay.. so here's something to consider... If you're a fan of Ghost in the Shell... the one thing that more or less seperated humans from the AI's they'd created was the existance of a Ghost... or soul.  On that basis.. humans had rights.. AI's didn't... and they could be created and destroyed at will.

Since this was a Holy war.. what could be more "holy" then the question of souls... Perhaps AI's like Ifurita were becoming so complex that they acquired souls spontaniously... and this created an untennable social situation.

This social/philosophical stress sparked the war.. On one side were people trying to fight for the "human" rights of all ensouled beings.. and on the other side.. people who believed that the AI's were only machines... and that therefore they must not be given such entitlements least the human race be destroyed through machanical revolution.

Obviously the people using beings like Ifurita employed enslaved AI's in their warfare.

Maybe Katsuhiko wakes up another DemonGod in an attempt to counter the rising power of the Roshtarians.. and inadvertantly has started a chain reaction.

That  demongod is determined to revive more of his own, and finish the holy war their way (his last command from his master was  to sleep until awakened, and then destroy the enemy forces while they lay complacant...

This would fit in perfectly with the whole Zoroastrian mythology theme that runs through the show of a final battle between good and evil... with Makoto filling the role of the  saoshaynt (for more info on that.. here's a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster that will explain the idea of the Saoshaynt)

Anyway... It could be really interesting if they just dont' try and make the series something it isn't. Keep it as a  serious story,  rather than just a buncha gags like the TV show was.

If they opted for a serious and heavy story, they could make something as good as the first series without too much trouble in the plot department.

-Crosses fingers that they do make the new series.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on November 27, 2004, 09:15:54 pm
Quote
But seriously, unlike Tenchi Muyo!, El-Hazard already had a fine OAV conclusion.  And unless the original (and sequel-averse) creator returns, I don't see much of a need for more - as much as it pains me to say it.


That's the ideal closing statement.  But it's too late; the can is open, and the majority of us are waiting for more.  ;)  Plus a lot of us were upset with the way AW turned out and keep hoping they might do better next time.  We're a little sad that way.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: d.t. on November 27, 2004, 10:08:23 pm
Number one way to mess it up?  Don't set it in El Hazard.

Seriously, it was the only Arabian themed anime out there, almost the only Arabian themed sci-fi... and they moved it to generic feudal European-place in AW.  That was the number one mistake in that series, taking away what made El Hazard stand out.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: kajishima_masaki on November 27, 2004, 10:30:33 pm
I agree, for two reasons. One, I love this series, it's great, and two, I think they should continue this, just as they did with Tenchi Muyo! GXP and 3rd OVA, and now there's a new episode I read about with more characters.  Can't they make another El Hazard too?
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: schlaghund on November 28, 2004, 10:25:10 am
Quote
Now, suppose he goes off and wakes up a Demon god (Hey..he may be a fine tactician, but after waking up Ifurita and having her turn on him.. you'd think that he'd learn not to stick keystaffs into strange female demon goddesses (But then again.. he's a guy, huh)
/quote

hmm  the only el hazard i didnt like was season 2 of actual el hazard  kalia just  duno dont like her character portrayed disposition

aw was ok and they tried not to reveal to much untill the end of the series when illujah was reveiled and his plans were said..  other then that dal had his reasons for being ignorant, knowing the power of the spring would destroy the world as it had before.

some of the farm scenes were cute to ...  relly wished rune had hooked up
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: MrWhat on November 29, 2004, 02:12:59 am
I've said most of this before, but just to bump the topic.

I still think the El-Hazard franchise is dead.  From what I've gathered, it pretty much went down in flames with Alt World, and it doesn't seem to have the popularity of other franchises that are enjoying revivals (i.e., Tenchi Muyo! and Oh My Goddess!).  But I would love to be proven wrong.  And it's certainly encouraging to hear that a revival is even being spoken of.

I'm not too particular about the format of a revival, but my choice would be a post-Ifurita-rescue adventure as a theatrical movie.  I've been lucky enough to see the Floristica palace on a big-screen TV; just imagine it on a movie screen.

It'd also be fun if they would copy what they're doing with Tenchi Muyo!.  They could do another full TV series, set in the OVA El-Hazard world, with new lead characters and cameos of the old leads.  Or they could do a full TV series just on Shayla, Afura, and Kauru.  And then, a third OVA to wrap up some loose ends in the "main" story, and hopefully, to give Makoto's Ifurita a little more screen-time.

The gang shouldn't go to Earth, at least, not for an extended adventure.  There's still so much of El-Hazard that hasn't been explored.  And Creteria didn't work very well, so why would Earth be any better?  Ken Wolfe's continuation is a masterpiece, but I think it's the exception that proves the rule.

The whole franchise has a dark side that appeals to me.  I've learned to enjoy Alt World by ignoring the plot holes, and by concentrating on the characters' interactions and reactions to difficult situations.  If they could go further with those strong emotions, and at the same time, work out a real story and stuff, that could be brilliant.

I also wouldn't say no to a TV series with another new continuity.  But I'm one of roughly six people on the entire planet who enjoyed Tenchi In Tokyo, so that might not go over very well.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: kajishima_masaki on November 29, 2004, 08:49:37 am
on Nov 29th, 2004, 2:12amhttp:// MrWhat wrote
Quote
It'd also be fun if they would copy what they're doing with Tenchi Muyo!.  They could do another full TV series, set in the OVA El-Hazard world, with new lead characters and cameos of the old leads.  Or they could do a full TV series just on Shayla, Afura, and Kauru.  And then, a third OVA to wrap up some loose ends in the "main" story, and hopefully, to give Makoto's Ifurita a little more screen-time.


I believe that too, it would. If they were to put new characters that would be cool as long as they're not annoying or stereotypical, maybe deep characters with problems, and they end up in El Hazard. Different people(possibly high schoolers, Japanese, maybe one Western), and each has a dark past. And they start an adventure somewhere in El Hazard, and they too get differetn abilities as Makoto and the rest did. But I would like to see how Fujisawa and Meeze do, in their marriage. And maybe Makoto having troubles in finding Ifruita, while Nanami and Shayla, and maybe Kuaur try to get his attention like always.

Quote
The gang shouldn't go to Earth, at least, not for an extended adventure.  There's still so much of El-Hazard that hasn't been explored.  And Creteria didn't work very well, so why would Earth be any better?  Ken Wolfe's continuation is a masterpiece, but I think it's the exception that proves the rule.


Of course not. But maybe if they do put new lead characters, they could make a plot twist where one of them gets back to Earth. But if they do make one where they end up on Earth, maybe it should be like this. Makoto, Nanami, and the others end up back, but they think it is the Earth, but things get weird in it, and they discover it is a parallel world ala Dual!, Tenchi Forever, created by another Kalia, to have a normal life. Or they could make one where they make it to the real world, but in the past, like in the '80s, or '70s.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Spanner on November 29, 2004, 10:21:53 am
I'm not gonna let myself get too excited about this news. Frankly, I don't think it's too likely it's gonna happen, and if it DOES happen they'll almost certainly make all kinds of the same old mistakes. Like feeling the need to add a "new girl" to attract fans, as they did with both Kalia and Qawool.

I get the distinct impression that the anime producers have no idea what El-Hazard fans really want. It's not the cute, bouncing girls or cool powers (though they're hardly unwelcome). It's the setting, the plot, the adventure, the romance - the CONTINUITY.

Then I speculate that, chances are, the anime producers are DEAD ON in what El-Hazard fans want. WE'RE the ones who are deluding ourselves: we hard-cores are such a tiny minority compared to the larger group of people who are solely interested in bouncing girls and cool powers. Why waste time developing "old news" characters like Afura, Shayla, and Miz, when we can throw in a cutesy new girl for the fans to ooh and aah over? :P

Meh. Just watch. They'll come up with a dazzling new storyline that fulfills the dream of every hard-core fan, AND add a cute new girl to the plotline who is actually interesting and enjoyable, just to spite my cynicism.

I probably wouldn't complain much if they did. ;D
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: d.t. on November 29, 2004, 03:12:19 pm
Quote




It'd also be fun if they would copy what they're doing with Tenchi Muyo!.  



Except make it actually be good.  *Nods sagely.*  *Quietly stabs Noike and Seina.*
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: js_morris on November 30, 2004, 12:25:29 pm
Well, this is interesting, especially given the AIC interview/article in the latest Newtype mentions that Hayashi is working on a new series having to do with an alternate dimension. Now, that could mean a great deal of things, but admittedly the first thing that came to mind was "El-Hazard".

JSM
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: trisse on November 30, 2004, 01:37:05 pm
Great news, if true. Personally I think EH is over for good, and I don't really believe in 3rd OAV... though I remember distant days on RFFC when a similiar message heralded coming of 3rd Tenchi OAV... and hardly anyone believed it. General opinion was that as "Shin Tenchi" was BAD, and TMiL2 movie medicore at best, they aren't going to risk yet another series.
And now look what happened...

So, if "Shin Tenchi" series didin't kill the entire Tenchi concept, I can see no reason why  AW should prove deadly to EH. Surely it was bad, but not THAT bad.

Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Lord God Jinnai on November 30, 2004, 02:01:44 pm
Quote


Except make it actually be good.


ZING!  XD
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: kajishima_masaki on November 30, 2004, 09:43:40 pm
on Nov 30th, 2004, 12:25pmhttp://js_morris wrote

Quote
Well, this is interesting, especially given the AIC interview/article in the latest Newtype mentions that Hayashi is working on a new series having to do with an alternate dimension. Now, that could mean a great deal of things, but admittedly the first thing that came to mind was "El-Hazard".


I hope he does. Speaking of which, I heard the guy behind Tenchi Muyo! is planning on another series himself, I think it's called Seikishi Monogatari. It also takes place in an alternate universe, except it also is about giant robots powered by magic power reactors. That's all I know.

on Nov 29th, 2004, 3:12pm http://d.t. wrote:
Quote
Except make it actually be good.


Yes

Quote
*Nods sagely.*  *Quietly stabs Noike and Seina.*


Ooh Yeah!
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: kajishima_masaki on December 07, 2004, 11:15:35 am
on Nov 29th, 2004, 10:21am ftp://Spanner
wrote:
Quote
I get the distinct impression that the anime producers have no idea what El-Hazard fans really want. It's not the cute, bouncing girls or cool powers (though they're hardly unwelcome). It's the setting, the plot, the adventure, the romance - the CONTINUITY.

Then I speculate that, chances are, the anime producers are DEAD ON in what El-Hazard fans want. WE'RE the ones who are deluding ourselves: we hard-cores are such a tiny minority compared to the larger group of people who are solely interested in bouncing girls and cool powers. Why waste time developing "old news" characters like Afura, Shayla, and Miz, when we can throw in a cutesy new girl for the fans to ooh and aah over?  

Uughh! I agree! They should just concentrate on what El-Hazard is really about! And about bouncing girls and cool powers, this is probably one of the reasons why people get tired of some shows, too much in-your face stuff, huh? Filled with cliches and stereotypes, that ain't right. And the bouncing girls, I guess that's why a few think of us fans as pervs, when we really don't want to see it. I had an English teacher who also mentions this stuff when he asks us about topics. He would say "talk about a topic wothrwhile, no more talk about porn or hentai." And also what one by the name of Pocketwatch, the once scourge of the internet, now retired once said: "People who mostly watch anime are nerds and pervs." Ya can't blame the poor guy. I can see why he said all those things long ago. That's what the producers should really focus on: the story, what's important about the show. No more sensationalizing the show, the more they do that the more it becomes something else. Though I did like the AW series, but still, that is what they should do.

Quote
Meh. Just watch. They'll come up with a dazzling new storyline that fulfills the dream of every hard-core fan, AND add a cute new girl to the plotline who is actually interesting and enjoyable, just to spite my cynicism.

I probably wouldn't complain much if they did.


Well, I hope they do. But, if they did add a cutre new girl, here's an idea they could do; they could make the new girl from the real world. She would be from a different school, and she would show up days after the disapperance of the four. She would meet them, and this is what she would say: You're here? I thought something else happened to you all. (To Fujisawa) I thought you wandered after getting drunk and suddenly vanished, they said in the news you might've gotten killed in a drunken state and your body is still missing. hehe or, They could make it a person related to Makoto, and she would be a mysterious, Ayanami-type character who would be disturbing. And they could make her have strange powers and make do creepy things. Maybe they could make her tell Makoto,"please, let's return home..." and then she enchants him. It's just what I think they oughta do.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Saucer on January 02, 2005, 12:03:44 am
Quote

I still think the El-Hazard franchise is dead.  From what I've gathered, it pretty much went down in flames with Alt World, and it doesn't seem to have the popularity of other franchises that are enjoying revivals (i.e., Tenchi Muyo! and Oh My Goddess!).  But I would love to be proven wrong.  And it's certainly encouraging to hear that a revival is even being spoken of.

Well AIC tends to ressurect some pretty random and rather more obscure franchises, including Bubblegum Crisis, Sol Bianca and Dangaioh. ^^; I am, and always have been, rather optomistic that El Hazard will see a revival some day.

Quote
I also wouldn't say no to a TV series with another new continuity.  But I'm one of roughly six people on the entire planet who enjoyed Tenchi In Tokyo, so that might not go over very well.

I thoroughly enjoyed Shin Tenchi Muyo. I thought it was hilarious. I think the main problem is that people simply don't take the series for what it's worth. But, rather see it as a bad rehashing. How can you not crack up at the Space Police Policeman running gag (of course, i was having a bad couple of years when I first started watching it, so maybe I just needed all the laughs I could get)? It's not like the writing was even that bad (certainly better than Alternative World). I seriously find it difficult to extract from people exactly why both Shin TM and TMiL2 were so "bad?"
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: rowan_a._seven on January 02, 2005, 11:08:14 pm
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I thoroughly enjoyed Shin Tenchi Muyo. I thought it was hilarious. I think the main problem is that people simply don't take the series for what it's worth. But, rather see it as a bad rehashing. How can you not crack up at the Space Police Policeman running gag (of course, i was having a bad couple of years when I first started watching it, so maybe I just needed all the laughs I could get)? It's not like the writing was even that bad (certainly better than Alternative World). I seriously find it difficult to extract from people exactly why both Shin TM and TMiL2 were so "bad?"


"Tenchi in Tokyo" was, to me, an exceedingly dichotomous series.  The first half felt like a bad rehash of Sailor Moon with the Tenchi cast, and, more often than not, the characters seemed more like caricatures than fresh takes on the original OAV individuals.  On the other hand, though, the second half had some utterly stunning character moments, particularly where Ryoko was concerned, and once the story became serious it was actually fairly good.  Yugi was a consistent bright spot and ranks up there with Pixy Misa as my favorite Tenchi 'villain' (Personally, I like to think that they're alternative versions of one another), and Tenchi's two friends were noteworthy additions to the cast.  Overall, though, I found the tedium of the first half of the series to be a big turn off, and, although I think the second half is much better, I was frustrated and disappointed that more wasn't done with the characters.  The creators spent an entire episode working to create chemistry of some sort between Ryoko and that blonde-haired guy that kind of looks like Kagato, but, instead of developing this, their relationship for the rest of the series seems to fall along the lines of "Hey, you're annoying".  More could have been done with Yugi's followers/servants, and Mihoshi and Kiyone definitely could've been written better.  

As for "Tenchi Forever", I actually quite liked that film.  I found it to be a pleasant change from the 'typical' Tenchi tale, and it was nice to see actual growth on the part of the main characters.  Then again, I'm also a Tenchi&Ryoko fan, so I'm probably not the best judge of quality when it comes to that movie.
^^;
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: overmaster on January 03, 2005, 03:03:01 pm
Regardless of if we like it or not, if AIC made remakes of Sol Bianca and Burn Up, then sooner or later they will do it with El Hazard, too.  ^^;
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: jewel_of_roshtaria on February 21, 2005, 09:10:04 pm
I love the idea of another EH! I just think it's way too early to be getting excited. They haven't even made it a plan yet, and after that there's still the chance that complications might occur and the OVA might be abandoned. I think I remember Rob saying that AW effectively killed El-Hazard's sequel potential, so I really hope I'm wrong, but I don't think it's going to happen...

A similar thing happened to a new Final Fantasy series that was being worked on. It was called Final Fantasy Gaiden, and it was supposed to be a re-telling of FFVIII from Seifer's point of view. And they actually got past the planning stages and put out a promotional video of Seifer and co fighting a Cactuar, but then the project was canceled due to "complications". I have a feeling it might have had something to do with the fact that FFVIII wasn't very popular compared to the rest of the series...

PS. d.t, Cute picture! I wonder where you got it...?
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Vash on February 27, 2005, 08:50:58 pm
 ^_^V hi I am new to this site and love it and this news is very exciteing to me.  Unfortunately I watched The Wanderers first, so when I got the OVA's I was a little sceptical.  Upon watching it I love the OVA's Far more then the TV series the series was good but the plot and characters were just better in the OVA's.  
I would have to agree with what was said before I was alittle disappointed with the was the first OVA's ended.  :'( so I am hopeing begging and pleading with whatever power there is that they make the ova's about how he finally is able to figure out the eye of god and reunite with Ifurita.  I think that would make the most sence in AW he was still trying to figure it out and so I think it would make perfect sence to end it with the actual showing of how they are brought back together.  what does everyone else think?  ^^;
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on February 27, 2005, 09:21:10 pm
AW was disapointing to me initially because it didn't end with any more answers than it started with, really.  In fact, overall it was kind of like "random adventures of our favorite characters +1 thrown into a non-El-Hazard scenario."  I think the only true redeeming value in AW was the Jinnai + Shayla dynamics.  I know my sister was well amused by Dall as well, though.  And enjoyed the angst of Gilda, IIRC.  Allujah was sort of an interesting character... but only in concept, since his precise definition is vague.  There were a few other things here and there as well, like furthered development of Miz and Fujisawa's ad hoc relationship.  But anyway...

From what I understand, the original OAV3 project was to answer all the great questions of AW and unite everything with a big climatic thing, but was canceled mostly due to the failure of AW in the market and I believe many angry fans.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Vash on February 28, 2005, 01:42:51 pm
I agree with you about AW I just found it alittle upsetting when I first watched the ovas to find that in the first one he is able to find her at the end but it didn't show how. Then in AW he still hasn't found her and is trying to still.  I guess I am just excited to see how they are reunited and perhaps they could go alittle further into there relationship alittle after they are runited.  but then again contuineing it like that could also ruin it.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: mark_engels on February 28, 2005, 08:34:43 pm
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I agree with you about AW I just found it alittle upsetting when I first watched the ovas to find that in the first one he is able to find her at the end but it didn't show how. Then in AW he still hasn't found her and is trying to still.  I guess I am just excited to see how they are reunited and perhaps they could go alittle further into there relationship alittle after they are runited.  but then again contuineing it like that could also ruin it.


Greetings, Vash-san.  Welcome to the forum.

I'm a big fan of the original OVA for many of the reasons you posit in this thread.  Shortly after I'd seen the OVA in its entirety, I learned of the existence of several fanficts specifically written to tie together these very plot threads.  

Probably the biggest reason I'm an EH OVA fan is because of Ifurita and Makoto.  A friend and like-minded individual named Ken Wolfe also happens to be a pretty decent writer.  He took upon himself to create a wonderful continuation series in which we learn how Makoto and Ifurita were reunited, and how their life together unfolded amid the chaos of postwar Roshtaria.  The "Earth" and "Reunited" stories are some of the finest fict works I've ever read.  Perhaps you might enjoy them too.

http://www.mts.net/~kenwolfe/

http://www.mts.net/~kenwolfe/fanfic.html

Ken and I still correspond from time to time, as we created some additional EH works together.  He's spent time living in Japan, which helps make the "Earth" story in which Ifurita and Makoto return to Makoto's home country all the more credible and interesting.

--me

M. J. Engels
Signal Technician
Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen LU 14
CN Rail
Valparaiso, Indiana  USA
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: mark_engels on February 28, 2005, 08:42:39 pm
What my previous post has to do with the topic at large is this:  several, myself included, believe that if Hayashi animated the plot from Ken Wolfe's Earth series and released THAT as OVA3, the result would be satisfying and compelling.

But that is merely our humble opinion.  Read the story and judge for yourself.

--me

M. J. Engels
Signal Technician
Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen LU 14
CN Rail
Valparaiso, Indiana  USA
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: d.t. on March 01, 2005, 12:04:19 am
I have NO idea where I got the bunny Jewel... erm... possibly from you?  ^^()  Seriously no clue.

Mark:  Sorry to say I have to disagree with you.  I actually disliked Wolfe's take even more than the AW take (which is a LOT really).  They both felt like they had missed a lot of what made the original so magical (particularly by having so much of the story take place outside of the Arabian setting), but some things in Wolfe's story just particularly rubbed me wrong (Nanami impaling Nahato and smearing his blood around seemed especially gratiuitous and out of place for the light hearted El Hazard world).

Regarding the "Alternate Universe" project someone mentioned, I have a nagging feeling it was GXP that was being discussed. After all, the mech from Dual appears in it (effectively making Seina, supposedly the most unlucky character in the universe, the single most absurdly powerful character in just about any Pioneer Anime.  SERIOUSLY).
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Spanner on March 01, 2005, 09:01:33 am
I'm afraid I have to agree with d.t., Mark. While I DID enjoy El-Hazard: Earth, I feel that it lost a lot of the "feel" of the original El-Hazard series (a problem common to all but a few gems of fanfiction, actually, for any series). Whether it was because it went "too far" here, or so-and-so seemed mischaracterized in this scene there, or it could use more silliness here, it was rare while I was reading it that I thought to myself, "Boy, reading this makes me feel like I'm watching El-Hazard."

This is by no means a critique of the quality of the story. It was an excellent work. But I consider it to be of the same sort of story as, for instance, the Ranma story "Waters Under the Earth" - a fantastic and well-paced epic tale, but not one that feels like the original source material. Many fabulous stories have been told in fanfiction, but only a scant few feel like an actual continuation.

On the other hand, El-Hazard 2 and El-Hazard: The Alternative World both lost a lot of that "El-Hazard feel" as well. If I could turn back the hands of time, and had the choice to replace those episodes with an animated version of El-Hazard: Earth, I'd do it in a second. :P

Really, though, what we'd all REALLY like to see is our El-Hazard Round Robin animated. Now THAT would be something. ;D
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: MrWhat on March 01, 2005, 10:48:49 pm
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I have NO idea where I got the bunny Jewel... erm... possibly from you?  ^^()  Seriously no clue.

For what it's worth, this page (http://www.syberpunk.com/cgi-bin/index.pl?page=oolong) has the story of Oolong the rabbit.  It doesn't say who first made the famous "I don't know what you're talking about" graphic.

By the way, I blame all of you for my new avatar (http://www.el-hazardonline.net/avatars/mrwhat1.jpeg).

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I'm afraid I have to agree with d.t., Mark. While I DID enjoy El-Hazard: Earth, I feel that it lost a lot of the "feel" of the original El-Hazard series (a problem common to all but a few gems of fanfiction, actually, for any series). Whether it was because it went "too far" here, or so-and-so seemed mischaracterized in this scene there, or it could use more silliness here [...]

I enjoyed EH: Earth, but I guess I never gave much thought to its "feel."  I guess "feel" doesn't really matter that much to me.  I'm a comedy writer (despite HNA), and Wolfe's work is a bit heavy, for my taste.  And, very generally speaking, the last part of Earth "went too far" and got too weird, for my taste.  But the great story in the first five parts, and his masterful writing in general, still make Earth a classic in my book.

I never gave much thought to "feel" in my own work, either.  If I can keep everyone in character, and if I can come up with a story that hangs together (cough) Alternative World (cough), then I'm happy.  Actually, I think The Charm has some of the feel of the first OVA.  HNA certainly does not, but then, I always meant for it to be something of an experiment.

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Really, though, what we'd all REALLY like to see is our El-Hazard Round Robin animated. Now THAT would be something. ;D

In the immortal words of Kelly Bundy...  The Mind Wobbles.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Jojo on March 02, 2005, 05:30:19 am
I'm liking the avatar :-D
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on March 02, 2005, 09:46:31 am
Yes, quite clever there, MrWhat.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: rowan_a._seven on March 02, 2005, 02:00:18 pm
Quote

By the way, I blame all of you for my new avatar.


...Poor Ifurita.  :bawl

Quote
I enjoyed EH: Earth, but I guess I never gave much thought to its "feel."  I guess "feel" doesn't really matter that much to me.  I'm a comedy writer (despite HNA), and Wolfe's work is a bit heavy, for my taste.  And, very generally speaking, the last part of Earth "went too far" and got too weird, for my taste.  But the great story in the first five parts, and his masterful writing in general, still make Earth a classic in my book.

I never gave much thought to "feel" in my own work, either.  If I can keep everyone in character, and if I can come up with a story that hangs together (cough) Alternative World (cough), then I'm happy.  Actually, I think The Charm has some of the feel of the first OVA.  HNA certainly does not, but then, I always meant for it to be something of an experiment.


While I usually enjoy reading El-Hazard fanfiction, I have not been overly fond of many tales that attempt to 'conclude' the saga.  Personally, I conceive El-Hazard as a semi-dream world for the Earthlings.  Makoto is part of a romantic love story and has a challenge/adventure with a beautiful woman waiting for him at the end of it, Fujisawa is now a hero of sorts and has a family, Jinnai has a purpose, an empire to command, and the chance to conquer the world, and Nanami has her own business.  The special powers they received have helped them realize their current situations (with the arguable exception of Nanami although if El-Hazard is ever continued I would dearly like to see her power help make her dreams come true in some manner).  'Ending' El-Hazard often involves ending the dreams in one or more ways, particularly where Jinnai is concerned, and this goes against part of what I consider to be the 'feel' of El-Hazard.  

...It also probably doesn't help that I'm a big fan of Jinnai, and many El-Hazard stories that seek to bring the tale to a close tend to focus more on Makoto and Ifurita rather than strive for a balance between Fujisawa, Makoto, Nanami, and Jinnai.   -_-

Quote
Really, though, what we'd all REALLY like to see is our El-Hazard Round Robin animated. Now THAT would be something.


I think such an endeavor might come close to bankrupting Pioneer's animation studios.  Just how long is that round robin anyway?
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: d.t. on March 02, 2005, 07:44:49 pm
Actually, the original plans for AW appear to be very different (apparently when Makoto first finds Kauru she was originally meant to be being pursued by a strange robot, made with technology similar to the Eye of God's key).  Wouldn't mind seeing what was originally planned (Provided it wasn't meant to end with Makoto getting eight wives like poor Seina in Pioneer's GXP).

Interesting backstory to my avatar.  *Looks at rabbit with more respect.*  

Mr. What, I salute your weirdness.  Truly you are an inspiration to us all.  

Spanner - Actually what we'd really like to see (and by "we" I'm only speaking for myself and a few others I know of) is the next chapter of your delightful  "Wandering Souls" Altiverse.  Do you intend to ever go back to that story?  The long hiatus saddens me...
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on March 03, 2005, 08:32:21 am
Quote
Actually, the original plans for AW appear to be very different (apparently when Makoto first finds Kauru she was originally meant to be being pursued by a strange robot, made with technology similar to the Eye of God's key).  Wouldn't mind seeing what was originally planned


Wait, where'd you get that from?
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Spanner on March 03, 2005, 09:04:06 am
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Spanner - Actually what we'd really like to see (and by "we" I'm only speaking for myself and a few others I know of) is the next chapter of your delightful  "Wandering Souls" Altiverse.  Do you intend to ever go back to that story?  The long hiatus saddens me...

Wow... I'm certain this is not what you want to hear, but I haven't thought about that story in a long time...

I finished half of the second chapter before grinding to a halt. I have lots of ideas in mind for future scenes I want to write but, as always, I make no promises. Wandering Souls is, I'm afraid, not near the top of my list of things I feel like I should get around to doing. Like balancing my checkbook, which I haven't done for several months. ^^;

I definitely hope to finish at least the second chapter someday, but I'm afraid this story will very likely join the ranks of stories out there that are started and never finished. Man, I'd hoped I'd never inflict that kind of pain on fandom, but what will be, will be.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Tsukasa on March 04, 2005, 07:07:03 pm
Just only saw this today, a new series it'll be a great thing if it happans.  Anime of today is really nothing compared to things like EL-Hazard were.  With the sucess of Tenchi 3 it could happan.

Only thing I'd like to really see in it, is get Shayla and Nanami out of thier crushs of Makoto, Nanami might be more but Shayla all I think that is, is a crush nothing more, sure it may hurt but her getting over it would help her, and build her character more! Come on Shayla get over him! :)
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: archaon on March 07, 2005, 08:08:38 pm
This is a very interesting topic. Though the first OVA is, without doubt the best, I don't think AW was bad. Actually it was better than the second OVA(Were the hell were the Lamps???) for many reasons, not the least of which, its size(The first OVA was, in effect, a 9 episodes series.)
I recognize Ken Wolfe's "Earth" as the best piece of EH work on the web and a third OVA based on it appeals to me.
But I would really prefer to see something that none of us has ever thought to write. Have you ever attempted to read a book, then watch the movie that was based on it? Don't try it. It is very possible to feel disappointed, because a novel is interpreted differently for each of us, each reader creating unique images within their minds. Of course it's not bad to just borrow some ideas from here and there ;) ;) ;) ;)

What I certainly wouldn't like to see is a remake. We have enough official storylines out there, just barely keeping our sanity. NOT A REMAKE!!!

Since both OVA2 and AW have happened, they must conjure a continuation that ties everything together, leaving just an occasional minor mystery for fanfiction writers to work with; and not the black pits of AW -_-.

If wishes were fishes... |D |D |D

Anyway, although a third OVA is one of the best things we have to expect, I will not really believe in such luck until I see an official announcement. Sorry people, rumors can start wars and overthrown civilizations(tm).
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on March 08, 2005, 06:10:21 pm
... Hence the disclaimer at the start of the post, Archa'.  :P  It was just speculation from someone overhearing this or that.  But since it's been quite some time since this occured, it's probably nothing to get immediately excited about.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: ken_wolfe on March 09, 2005, 04:03:53 pm
Hello. Mark Engels told me about the talk of a possible new El Hazard OVA that showed up on this forum.  I read through this and it has turned into a pretty interesting discussion.  I guess we all have our own wish lists of things we would love to see a new OVA focus on. My own feeling is that any sequel that does not focus on Makoto and Ifurita will be doomed to fail. This is really their story, which was made perfectly clear by the opening sequence of the very first OVA. The central mystery of what brought these two people together is what drove the early part of that series. It floundered a little bit and did not really come alive until Ifurita made her reappearance. At that point it became a story of one chained soul yearning to be free and another yearning to free her. And nobody who experienced the end of the last episode of OVA 1 could doubt that the relationship between these two is the core of the story and is what gave the original El Hazard series its power. They are the reason it's all there, the rest is just window-dressing. Certainly it was very fine window-dressing, the fantasy backdrop was simply breathtaking. But this story could have worked just as well in a well-constructed Medieval-Europe setting or a SF world more like the Alternative World, it would have just had a slightly different flavor. The sequels to date have given us a bit of the flavor of the original, but they failed to the degree that they ignored what gave the original series its meaning. OAV2 gave a glimpse of Makoto's desperation to find his soul-mate again, but the faux-Ifurita ultimately made it into a fraud. I can understand why no studio has tried to tackle this one properly, any sequel that deals with the two core characters would have to *start* with the ending of the first series, certainly one of the most beautiful and sublime moments in all anime. It's fine to write a story that starts there, converting the anime to prose transforms it more profoundly than  translating it into a different language. One can avoid comparison by hiding behind that transformation. But to make an anime series that picks up from the original and expects to live up to it, that is something entirely different. I doubt we will ever see it done.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: dooky on March 10, 2005, 10:56:05 am
(dooky is back! Shower him with MariMite plushies and unobtainable Disgaea merchandise!)

Hello all, and hello to Ken, long time no see. And what better way to reacquaint myself than by disagreeing thoroughly with what you've just said? ^_~

El-Hazard has always seemed to have a very diverse fandom, and I put that down to the fact that it's very multi-faceted. Everybody has their own reason for liking it: some people are attracted to the fantasy element, some like the romance, some like the drama, and some like the comedy. For me it was the latter. The comedic side of El-Hazard was what made me love the show, and for a long time I didn't really consider the Makoto/Ifurita relationship to be that interesting... it was just one of those elements of the show that didn't appeal to me. More recently, I've warmed to it somewhat, but neither character has ever really been a favourite of mine, so while I acknowledge their importance to the plot, they were never really a factor in my liking of the series.

One of the other things that made me like El-Hazard initially was the sheer scale of everything. Not only was there a huge, unexplored world as the setting, there was an impressive ensemble cast. Contrary to allegedly similar series such as Tenchi, the main character wasn't the only focus of romantic attention. Relationships were established that had no bearing on the Makoto/Ifurita situation at all, and everyone had their own story, their own little subplots. It was nice to see the whole cast of characters treated so well by the writers: the fact that they all had their own stories helped to establish them as real people, not just plot devices to drive the story along.

So while I see where you're coming from, I just think that your point of view seems to do the rest of the characters a disservice. I'd argue that your view of the series is only one of many ways of looking at it. Of course, it could be that I'm totally misinterpreting the series, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who didn't have that much interest in the Makoto/Ifurita thing upon first viewing.

It's worth mentioning that Wanderers dropped the relationship, and seems to be a very popular series in it's own right. It's also worth mentioning that I was far more disappointed by the lack of Fatora than I was by the absence of OVA-Iffy... although that, I suspect, is just a little quirk of mine ^_^

And you can put the general dodginess of OVA2 and AW down to many things, but the lack of Ifurita doesn't have to be one of them... although I can see how that would be a big disappointment for Ifurita fans. I'd blame lazy writing more than anything else, although I still maintain that AW could have been much better had circumstances been different, and that OVA2 episode 1 is (at least in its dub incarnation) El-Hazard's finest half-hour ^_~
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: ken_wolfe on March 13, 2005, 01:51:30 pm
Hi Dooky.

Certainly all the elements you mentioned contribute to how well the El Hazard series worked. It had a very imaginitive, carefully constructed backdrop that hinted at much more beyond what we were seeing. It had many moments of humor amongst the high drama of the major story arc. And very importantly it had a strong supporting cast who were all used to good effect. But notice I call them a *supporting* cast, because that is what they are. They are all weaved into the story and it would have been a lesser series without any of them. But could you imagine a sequel that focused just on any one of them? The further adventures of Nanami or Fatora or Jinnai? The story would be an unending quest for money, hot lesbian sex and power respectively. That might be enough for a half-episode subplot, but would not carry a series and would certainly not make it memorable. Since El Hazard came out there have certainly been many other fantasy anime series that had backdrops and ensemble casts as well-realized as this one. But they have largely been forgotten while El Hazard endures. We are still here talking about it ten years after it has been released. Why? A series doesn't get that sort of staying power with just some nice art, cute characters and a few laughs. There has to be something more. I submit that something is the story of Ifurita finding her humanity and Makoto fighting to free her. Had that element been missing from the original series, at the end of the last episode I probably would have smiled and said "yeah, that was okay", filed the laser disk away with all the rest (yes, it was that long ago) and probably never looked at it again for the next ten years. I would certainly not have gone out to buy the DVD box set, buy all the mediocre sequels in a desperate attempt to get back some of the story's magic or written novel-length fanfic for it. The story elements you mention are ones El Hazard shares with many lesser series, but it is the core story and the relationship between the main characters that sets this one apart.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Saucer on March 13, 2005, 08:58:31 pm
Quote
OAV2 gave a glimpse of Makoto's desperation to find his soul-mate again, but the faux-Ifurita ultimately made it into a fraud.

This, for the most part is what killed AW for me as well. You had the taunting little bit in the first episode, with Makoto's dream about Ifurita. And after that....... nothing. A bit of a disappointment, considering her mug was plastered all over the cover of the first video.  -_-

BTW, welcome to the board Ken.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: ken_wolfe on March 14, 2005, 06:55:22 pm
Thanks, Saucer.

What was really ridiculous about AW was that Ifurita figured prominently in the opening credit sequence and then never even showed up at all. That's what I call false advertising.

BTW, nice pic of Ifurita with the katana. Where's that from?

Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: dooky on March 14, 2005, 07:59:06 pm
I always got the impression that AW would have featured Ifurita had they been able to finish the series the way they'd originally planned. If not, then why all the foreshadowing in the first episode. Granted, it's still a burn to Ifurita fans no matter what the reason, but I find it a little more acceptable than the use of Ifurita 2 in OVA2, which did seem to be a rather cynical reuse of an old character design. I'd have preferred it if they stuck to the different Demon God they used in the radio dramas, but there you go. At least they had the courtesy to give her a different voice.

And Ken, I can't really disagree with you about the Makoto/Ifurita thing, because I think it is a matter of personal taste. Their romance was obviously the pivotal factor in your love for the series, but it really wasn't in my case. I can't say why, other than that we probably look for different things in anime. I could well be in a minority with this opinion, but I know there are a few people around here who prefer Wanderers to the original, so I'm not the only one. I hope I didn't seem overly critical of your point of view- I was just pointing out, in my indelicate way, that different people like the series for different reasons. Which might be why it's proven so difficult to make an effective sequel.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Wayne on March 15, 2005, 02:55:36 am
I guess in the absence of any news about the rumored El-Hazard continuation, we're talking about this? *chuckles* Cool....

Good to see you, Ken. I don't read much fanfiction any more, but I'll probably check out yours once I have some time. Good EH stuff is always welcome, heh.

As for me, while TMW (the first OAV series) was easily my favorite, it wasn't really because of the Makoto/Ifurita relationship. I liked both characters (until Shayla started to grow on me, Ifurita was actually my favorite, largely because of the remarkably believable change her character goes through, coupled with the "coolness" factor she has), though. And that's really it-- I liked El-Hazard for its characters (especially the comedic situations) and backstory (a pretty solid one, given how little time the show had to work with) more than anything else.

TAW was bad because it ruined both-- the once-loved cast mostly became caricatures of themselves, and by the time that problem started to recover the show had hit a pretty long series of plotholes that messed up the rest of it. I did like The Wanderers-- though a disappointment compared to the original, it wasn't bad by any means.

So yeah, that's about where I stand on things. Not that anyone cares; just to contribute to the discussion, heh.  -_-
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Saucer on April 08, 2005, 08:21:07 pm
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BTW, nice pic of Ifurita with the katana. Where's that from?


Domo.  ;D It's cropped from a page from a Hanaukyo Maid-tai-themed El-Hazard doujinshi called "Dengeki Inuoh." Featured here at EHOL in the doujinshi section. I kind of have a weird aversion to H-doujin of existing non-H series, but it's got some nice (non-H) Ifurita drawings.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: alwin on April 16, 2005, 01:15:06 pm
i am kinda lost in this topic..but i got a feeling that this is somehow related to a new series of El hazard.. >_<
to that i say yeaaa

personally speaking, i prefered the original version instead of wanderers though... :p ...ahem perhaps someone should remove fatora's les's part. it's ..oh hell i dont know what to say. just remove it! LOL!!

focus on the story and character development instead of cute-ness pleassee :p
roger out.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOLanxiety
Post by: Helio Perroni Filho on April 16, 2005, 05:41:42 pm
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Good to see you, Ken. I don't read much fanfiction any more, but I'll probably check out yours once I have some time.


I strongly advise you to. El Hazard: Earth is such a beautiful work! I always go fanboy-mode when I talk about it -- it got mostly everything I ever wanted to see in an EH sequel, afterall. Then again, I share much of Ken's vision on El Hazard and what makes it great...

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As for me, while TMW (the first OAV series) was easily my favorite, it wasn't really because of the Makoto/Ifurita relationship.


Although I've been aware of it for some time now, it still surprises me that not all EH fans -- perhaps not even most of us -- regard Makoto, Ifurita and the story of them as the series' defining point. Perhaps it has something to do with that "diversity" thing, which humans are rumoured to have? :P

The first time I watched The Magnificent World, it was very clear to me that the critical point for the series, the one that set it apart from the typical comedy / romance or fantasy anime, was the fact that its climax wasn't about whether the hero would prevent the vilain from destroying the world -- something we rarely, if ever, get any reason to doubt -- but whether we'd ever get to witness Makoto meeting Ifurita again. From a storytelling standpoint, it would be alright to end the series right after Gallus was defeated, with Ifurita disapearing in the Eye of God and Makoto promising to one day go to her rescue. This simple shift of focus, from the epic quest to save a world to the comparatively unimportant quest of two souls for each other, produced what is to this day my greatest experience as an anime fan: the anxiety that only those who hope for a certain outcome, but have no way to know if it will be achieved, can feel.

Fantasy tales tend to have predictable climaxes. We know the hero will confront the vilain; his victory may be costly, but not for a moment we doubt that evil will be conquered and peace returned to the land. Similarly, most comedy / romance stories, despite all their efforts to create romantic polygons, rarely suceed in making us doubt the "main couple" will end up together -- and rarely care to make a good case to convince us that this pairing is "the right one", and not any of the other possibilities. It is through the story of Makoto and Ifurita that El Hazard avoids these all too familiar pitfalls: not only it brings uncertainty to an otherwise predictable climax, but also, by showing how Makoto's and Ifurita's feelings evolve towards each other, it provides a romantic deepness that is absent even from many works that regard themselves as "romantic".

However, I do understand that, even without paying much attention to the obnoxious earthling and his cool android girlfriend, people can still like El Hazard. From the precarious balance that makes Jinnai a comic relief character and a dangerous vilain, to the careful scripting that allows Makoto to be more than the typical spineless school boy (anyone else noticed he only accepts to be dressed like a girl after he concludes that this is the best strategy to find a way back home?), the series does a skillful job of avoiding cliches all over. The supporting cast and their subplots are certainly amusing, and the art design does provide an original feeling to the setting. But I personally agree with Ken: if this was all there was to say about The Magnificent World, I would still regard Rayearth as my most beloved series, and barely remember El Hazard by now.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: mark_engels on April 16, 2005, 07:07:02 pm
Wot he sed.  

MJE

Soon to be relocating to Fond du Lac, Wisconsin  USA
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Saucer on April 23, 2005, 10:42:35 pm
The first time I watched TMW, I knew right away that Iffy and Makoto's "fated encounter" at the beginning was going to be the motivating factor for the entire series. It's obvious, the way Makoto spends most of the series trying to find Iffy and learn more about her. Then, when he does find her, he stops at nothing to save her from herself. It's intersting, this moebius strip of meetings and partings, which is why I find the whole series so fascinating.

I've had people argue with me that TMW revolves around Makoto solely and that his exploits are the driving factor of the series. And while... well "to each his own," I feel that people liek this are missing the deeper meaning behind TMW.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: Spanner on April 25, 2005, 08:50:47 am
While I respect the opinions of those who feel that Makoto/Ifurita is the most important part of El-Hazard, I can't help but notice that most of you are using the argument that "If the Makoto/Ifurita wasn't there, it'd still be a good show, but not the masterpiece that we adore so much."

I agree.

But what you have to understand is that argument works the other way around, as well. The Makoto/Ifurita stuff is not the ONLY part of El-Hazard that is irreplacable. If we were to have lost the great villian that is Jinnai, or the beautifully Arabian fantasy setting, or the interesting and often comically appropriate powers given to the Earthlings, or any of a thousand-and-one other elements - EVEN if we kept that Makoto/Ifurita romance - we would, as Ken Wolfe put it, smiled and said "That was okay" and filed away the disk. I firmly believe that this applies even to the most fervent of Makoto/Ifurita fans here.

El-Hazard achieved a remarkable balance, that managed to mix some admittedly cliche elements in a way that caused it to just... CLICK. With a whole lot of people. It is very misleading to insist that, "Without element X, this series would have sucked," because X is just one of many elements that is irreplacable in El-Hazard.

I've seen Makoto and Ifurita in other series. Average Joe J who manages to teach humanity and love to alien/robot/whatever girl G is a classic formula, and there have been times when I've been impressed and unimpressed with its treatment. In El-Hazard, though, combined with elements X, J, L, I, O, and W, it was moving on a whole new level - a level it could never have achieved on its own.
Title: Re: Conversation with Associate; OAV3, EHOL
Post by: dooky on April 28, 2005, 09:22:15 am
Well put, Mr Spanner sir. Precisely what I was aiming for, but in a fraction of the verbiage.