El-Hazard Online
General => El-Hazard Online => Topic started by: xxdemongodifuritaxx on October 13, 2004, 02:53:12 pm
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I got to thinking and I was wondering which laugh did you like better, my Master's laugh in dubbed or my Master's laugh in subbed?
to me, it doesn't matter if its done by a japanese man or an american, they both send shivers down my spine and would cause me to jump a mile high if I heard it in a dark alley on a quiet deserted night.
I do think that the dubbed laugh though has a more maniacal feel to it. *shrugs*
either way, it still chills me to the bone.
psst! but don't tell Master I said so because he'd punish me good and I don't have the strength for his punishments. it isn't fair that I'm ticklish everywhere!
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Ah, dub versus sub. The general concensus is that the El-Hazard dub actually adds to the overall quality of the show, which is somewhat rare in today's market. (I even did a panel at this past Otakon and got personal confirmation on that from a particularly active member in the audience.) Of course, you bring in someone like Saucer, who "likes his anime like he likes his wome-...", er, well, actually I dunno about that. I do know he likes subtitles no matter what, though.
On the specific note of Jinnai's laugh... Japanese seem to be generally soft-spoken people. Perhaps it's their language phonetics, which are generally softer sounds, compared to our "son of German" language, which contains a lot of coarse, rough sounds. (Though perhaps not as harsh as German itself!) In that respect, it appears to me that Jinnai's laugh is more boisterous in the dub and his overall voicing a bit more frantic and loud than his Japanese counterpart. But, again, I owe the differences to the radically different sound of Japanese. Performance-wise, I think both actors do about an equal job, and if the Japanese is as good as the English, I think that's terrific.
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Both of Jinnai's voice actors are very, very good at representing both his speaking voice and his cackle. If I had to pick, though, I'd probably lean slightly in favor of the Japanese seiyu, just because the laugh is that much funnier with the Japanese accent to it.
I do like the El-Hazard English dub; all of the characters fit their roles and the variety of accents and styles makes the Japanese dubbing seem almost boring in comparison. (I say "almost" because the Japanese voice work is incredibly good too, and I find that pretty rare in most anime; I'm usually not that impressed by "the original" voice acting.)
The unfortunate exception is Shayla's voice actress. When I first heard her ask about "that Nah-naa-me chick" in her horrible Southern drawl I wanted to jab my bokken in my ear. :-/
And slightly off-topic, I still have to give the award for the best anime cackle to Rumi Kasahara's Pixy Misa. :]
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Not sure if I'm qualified to post my opinion since I've only seen the dub, but that dub laugh just has that *twitch* factor that makes you want to strangle the guy ;D Of course, watching the dub is purely by choice, I like to see dubs first and then stick with them if they are good. I don't think I could stand watching it in Japanese now that I've seen it in English too much and associate the voices with the characters now.
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Of course, watching the dub is purely by choice, I like to see dubs first and then stick with them if they are good. I don't think I could stand watching it in Japanese now that I've seen it in English too much and associate the voices with the characters now.
Yeah, I'm just about as bad. :P
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Of course, you bring in someone like Saucer, who "likes his anime like he likes his wome-...", er, well, actually I dunno about that. I do know he likes subtitles no matter what, though.
I just knew you were going to beat me to the punch. ^^;
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For me, it has to be dub Jinnai. Possibly one of the greatest performances in an anime dub.
As for the laugh though... it's hard to tell the difference. The English and Japanese laughs are pretty similar. What makes the English performance stand out is the regular lines. When I eventually watched the Japanese version, I was amazed my how deep and menacing the original voice was.
The general concensus is that the El-Hazard dub actually adds to the overall quality of the show, which is somewhat rare in today's market.
As a bit of a dub devotee, I'd have to disagree. El-Hazard still stands out as one of the best dubs ever, but I'd hardly say that todays dubs are of substandard quality. Take ISM's Azumanga Daioh dub... a pretty much spot-on transition with appropriately subtle and/or insane performances. The Read or Die TV dub goes down the El-Hazard route of tweaking lines here and there to make the whole thing funnier (Anita's line in the dub when receiving a signed book from Nenene, "I wonder how much I'll get for this on eBay", seemed altogether ruder than the flat Japanese "Maybe I can sell this"). The overall quality of dubs has improved dramatically since the mid-nineties, even if truly stellar dubs like El-Hazard will always be few and far between.
The unfortunate exception is Shayla's voice actress.
You see, I'd completely disagree there... but again, I saw the dub first. For me, Shayla's voice works perfectly in English, although I did notice somethimng interesting when I first watched the Japanese version. You know the scene in Episode 5, where Shayla and Nanami approach Makoto, only for him to say "Ifurita"? In the English version, Shayla runs away screaming, but in the Japanese, she's actually crying. Which is something I couldn't imagine from her English voice, who seems altogether harder.
When I first heard her ask about "that Nah-naa-me chick" in her horrible Southern drawl I wanted to jab my bokken in my ear.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Shayla's Japanese voice have some sort of strange, non-standard accent? I might be remembering wrong... I'm quite bad at noticing Japanese accents, but a friend of mine pointed it out... the only thing is, I can't remember if it was Shayla or Afura.
There are only a few voices in the dub which have ever given me problems, and they are Schtalubaugh, Nahato/Parnasse, Ifurita and Arjah. Schtalubaugh is generally very good, but there are a few parts where he completely overdoes it (listen to that "long shrouded in ancient legend" line from Episode 1 and tell me it doesn't sound like an advert for a theme park or something). I list Nahato and Parnasse together since they clearly have the same voce: Nahato just sounded odd at times, nothing I can quite put my finger on, perhaps it was the accent. For such a quiet, understate character the voice didn't work. Parnasse's performance was much more energetic and the voice worked a lot better... but again, started to sound weird when he quietened down.
Iffy's voice, conversely, worked fine for the quiet scenes, or even her stern, emotioness ones, but started to crack when she got louder (I'm thinking the start to Episode 6) and she was suddenly in danger of turning into Washu.
The only truly disappointing voice was Arjah's. Admittedly the character was a diasppointement too, so maybe it fits anyway. He can't have been helped by the lacklustre direction, but the guy always sounded bored, even when he was ranting. And his evil laugh was shite.
I feel a bit bad what with all this negativity (particularly when I'm deconstructing otherwise excellent performances in minute detail) so let's emind ourselves of some of the high points of the dub. Jinnai, Fujisawa and Alielle are basically flawless. Almost as great are the actors portraying Makoto, Nanami, Fatora and Miz. In terms of guest characters, Galus and Dall both have wonderful voices (Dall's dub voice represents one of the highlights of Alternative World for me. That, and Gilda just being gorgeous... ahem)...
El-Hazard has earned a place in anime history as the greatest dub of its day. That said, I'm keen to see other dubs learning from its example, and hopefully exceeding its achievements.
dooky (not dead, just waiting for something worthwhile to say)
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Good points. I overstated what I meant. What I actually was thinking of, but incorrectly stated, was that of the popular, marketed anime market. I'm thinking very specifically of a recent entry, One Piece, which had another forum I attend go on a several page violent rant over so many things. ^^; A major point being that it was a 4Kids dub, which should've been a promise to failure right there, but 4Kids apparently "promised" to make the dub much more loyal to the original source than their usual work. They even previewed an English version of the theme song to show their detication. But by the time it aired, the theme music was replaced by a "Pirate Rap," and several pointless, stupid audio adjustments were performed such as cannon balls making laser sounds. So that's where it all really hurts.
... apparently though they decided to have a little guilt by releasing an apparently unedited "uncut" DVD. (It's important to note that distinction, since a lot of times "uncut" is still censored when dealing with these things!) The suggestion of course was to buy into that one to prove that money is to be made in those who are loyal, such as the good people of Pioneer / AIC.
(Did you know Pioneer's name has changed? I need to get updated on that one. Genion or some such. Tim knows, so I feel stupid. ;P)
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I'm more for the dub myself. Might be because I heard that first but I didn't think much of the Japanese at all. And just so I know didn't the same person do the english voices for Washu and (all but wanders) Ifurita? Then again I thought end of eva was a comedy so what do I know?
"When everyone agrees with you it's time to change your opinon."
Or learn how to spell.
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Well, I for one prefer the dub voice, and I watched the Japanese version first. I could go on and on about the dub vs sub thing and all the reasons why I prefer dub over sub, but I ain't going to.
Perhaps the basic reason that I like Bob Marx's portrayal better than the Japanese guy's (aside from the fact that it is one of the best voice over works EVER) is the fact that I understand it. It's in English, a language I can speak. I can't really have an opinion on Jinnai's original Japanese voice since a) I'm not fluent in Japanese and b) I'm not fluent in Japanese.
So English Jinnai gets my vote. Enough said.
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I just knew you were going to beat me to the punch. ^^;
So Saucer... how do you like your women? ;D
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So Saucer... how do you like your women? ;D
Erm... Subtitled, I'm guessing? ^^;
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Erm... Subtitled, I'm guessing? ^^;
Them's fightin' words. You gonna take that from him, Saucer?
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So Saucer... how do you like your women? ;D
I prefer art teachers with curly hair.
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... and up until now I was only suspecting. ;P
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*Blink blinks.* Erm... right... back to the question, I prefer sub Jinnai. But I'm biased, dubs in general make me gnash my teeth in agony. Dunno why, since I often like the voice actors when they contribute to non-anime works. Just one of those things.
Somewhere... on a ZIP disk in a box in a closet... there is a wav file I made. Sub Jinnai's laugh. Overlayed with Pixy Misa's laugh. Overlayed with Naga's laugh.
Truly, I am mad.
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Truly, you should post.
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Somewhere... on a ZIP disk in a box in a closet... there is a wav file I made. Sub Jinnai's laugh. Overlayed with Pixy Misa's laugh. Overlayed with Naga's laugh.
Truly, I am mad.
O_O;;; PH33L D4 PH33R
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I think we've lost d.t. [...]
*Blink blinks.* Erm... right...
Oh, fine. Go and post for the first time in nine months, three days after I've written you off ^^;
Sorry. Nice to "see" you again. Most of the other Round Robin folks want to post a story-only version of the RR on FanFiction.net. If you have any objections, please let us know ASAP.
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I see no problem with that... Rowan's planning a bit of an epilogue, and I have an idea or two I want to throw in after that... And I wouldn't be surprised if a few other creativity daemons were inspired once those are posted... but when all's said and done I'd certainly have no problem with it being posted somewhere.
To be honest I had a hell-of-a-lot-o'-fun on it, just ended up with a ton on my plate near the end. Wouldn't mind doing another one day. Was recently going through some old magazines, and found a tiny article explaining the plans for the "new" El Hazard TV series, to be set in the same world as those first two OAVs. It sounds like it was going to be a little different from how "The Alternative World" actually turned out, and it did make me wonder how a Round Robin would've used those background elements... but now I'm rambling.
Mind you, if you want to make sure I don't read a post, make sure to put it in a thread with "Tech" in the title. ^^()
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Well, I for one prefer the dub voice, and I watched the Japanese version first. I could go on and on about the dub vs sub thing and all the reasons why I prefer dub over sub, but I ain't going to.
Perhaps the basic reason that I like Bob Marx's portrayal better than the Japanese guy's (aside from the fact that it is one of the best voice over works EVER) is the fact that I understand it. It's in English, a language I can speak. I can't really have an opinion on Jinnai's original Japanese voice since a) I'm not fluent in Japanese and b) I'm not fluent in Japanese.
So English Jinnai gets my vote. Enough said.
Yes...here here! Bob Marx's protrayal brought alot of life into this character. And that's why it made Jinnai memorable as a villian IMO. Also, the Japanese actor made Jinnai sound older than he should have been...but, I ain't complaining about the Japanese actor. Props go to him for setting up the catalyst for Bob Marx's to work with as an actor...
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the dubbed version ^_^V
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I am going to give you another vision. Since I'm French I've never seen the English dub version. But I heard both Japanese and French versions (hum well quite normal for me). And really... French version sucks. I'm not against all dub versions, for example I really like the Cowboy Bebop french dub version. but El Hazard one...
Makoto's french voice sounds like a inexpressive voice. I know that Makoto isn 't a really expressive guy, but the french guy plays as good as a porn star in the try of dialogues. Shayla's french voice sounds like a 50's year old woman, and if you hear Miz's voice without looking, you could think you're in a nursing house.
The adaptation of dialogues are not bad, but neither good. They are just plain.
In the OAV2, there is a report about the French dubbing, and when I saw it, I understood why it was so bad. They say in it that they wanted to be easy to be understood by children (I don't know of you, but I wouldn't let a child see El Hazard). The actors discover the dialogues in the same time that they are playing it. They do not know the story. My, of course, even a good actor would be bad in such conditions.
In the Japanese version, I personally enjoy the accent of people, but yes it might not be easy if you don't speak Japanese or simply aren't used to the different accents. Afra speaks with the Kansai-ben, which is the special variation of Japanese spoken around Kyoto or Osaka, and Shayla speaks with an accent from Okinawa for example.
Like always, the subtitles are not exactly completed. I mean, you just have two lines at best times to translate much more dialogues. So of course, you have to make choices. And I don't know if you can really translate right the variation of language degree. Londz speaks infinitly well, with much respect, Rune uses also a really polite language. On the opposite Shayla speaks really bad, swears a lot and speaks of herself with too much honnor (something you shouldn't do in japanese). I enjoy this, but in French subtitles it is hardly translated.
I envy you for having a good English version as it seems...
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I perfer the dub version, but then I'm a big fan of Bob Marx in general (though his Katsuhiko Jinnai work is the main reason I'm a Bob Marx fan to begin with).
I watched Hand Maid May, for example, solely because Bob Marx did the voice of Nanbara there.
I was a comic book fan before I became a big anime fan, and Bob Marx makes Jinnai come across as a militaristic mix of Lex Luthor and the Joker to me... my two favourite comic book villains. The original Japanese voice actor is good, but he frequently sounds just a touch over-done/too high of a pitch to me.
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Mysthe I know this is a bit off-topic, but I've been wanting to ask you this:
In the French DVDs you have:
- El-Hazard, le Monde Magnifique - which is El-Hazard OVA 1 and 2
- El-Hazard, le Monde Alternatif - which is Wanderers El-Hazard
- El-Hazard, les Mondes Alternatifs OAV 2 - which is El-Hazard The Alternative World
Is this correct? Because if it is, the publishers messed up big time with the titles: the Wanderers series and the Alternative World are two completely different stories....
Back on topic, I prefer the original japanese version, but here in Portugal we are used to watch EVERYTHING subtitled so my opinion may be biased....
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Mysthe I know this is a bit off-topic, but I've been wanting to ask you this:
In the French DVDs you have:
- El-Hazard, le Monde Magnifique - which is El-Hazard OVA 1 and 2
- El-Hazard, le Monde Alternatif - which is Wanderers El-Hazard
- El-Hazard, les Mondes Alternatifs OAV 2 - which is El-Hazard The Alternative World
Is this correct? Because if it is, the publishers messed up big time with the titles: the Wanderers series and the Alternative World are two completely different stories....
Yes that's it. I have got 3 boxes.
The first one contains the 2 OAVs.
The first 3 DVDs are the original OAV.
The last one contains the 2d OAV. In fact, it was the last to be released in France. So they chose another name and it is called "La dernière nuit" (the last night).
The second box contains The Wanderers, and is called "Le monde alternatif" (the alternative world).
The last one contains The Alternative World and is called "El Hazard 2 : Les mondes alternatifs" (El Hazard 2 : the alternative worlds)
It seems that in fact each serial was translated by someone else who did not look at the total work.
The one who received The Wanderers thought : oh thath is El Hazard but Ifrita is not the same, neither Rune... Must be some kind of an alternative world. Let's call it like that !
But in fact I will look when it was translated, maybe The Alternative World wasn't already produced...
The French adaptation of The Alternative World was made around 2004 so the title "Alternative world" was already token by the Wanderers. El Hazard 2 wasn't translated in France. So the translator thought : oh that is the following of the original OAV. Let's call it "El Hazard 2 !". Note that he or she didn't even check if this was a TV show or an OAV, and so it is written on my box "OAV".
So yes it is really messed up...
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Thanks for the info! ;) That was a doubt I had for a long time.
But in fact I will look when it was translated, maybe The Alternative World wasn't already produced...
That's correct: The Alternative World series are more recent than the Wanderers.