El-Hazard Online

General => El-Hazard Online => Topic started by: rowan_a._seven on January 21, 2004, 12:54:10 am

Title: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: rowan_a._seven on January 21, 2004, 12:54:10 am
Hi.  Seeing as how "The Alternative World" is one of the more...negatively critiqued El-Hazard installments, I was wondering what changes people would make to it if they could.  Personally, if I could I think I'd make the main cast more proactive.  In OAV1 they shaped the storyline, and if anything the plot had to keep up with them and their actions.  However, in "The Alternative World" virtually everything is manipulated by Arjah, and the characters seem to be simply waiting to perform a task.  While this isn't necessarily bad in and of itself, the execution (in my opinion) left something to be desired, and I really would've liked to see the main characters do more than essentially wait for their parts in the story to take place.  Take Miz, Fujisawa, Rune, and Afura, for example.  They're on a farm with a Creterian native.  Once the more 'totalitarian' aspects of agricultural life were shown, they could've used those characters and Chabil to provide more background and history for Creteria.  As for Jinnai, Shayla, and Groucho, I think it could've been very entertaining seeing the three of them actually work together and perhaps get involved in the rebellion that was going on.  That would've at least given us the other side of the story and presented Jinnai and Shayla a chance to have a more important role in the series...and hopefully spare us the image of fat Jinnai. :bawl

So, if you could change something about "The Alternative World" what would it be?  
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: d.t. on January 21, 2004, 01:09:04 am
Put simply, the El Hazard cast had no business in a psuedo-European fantasy setting.  The arabian flavor of their exploits is what had set them apart from the competition in the past.  Losing that uniqueness hurt the series.  
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Lord God Jinnai on January 21, 2004, 03:15:18 am
Firstly, I would do something about the NUMEROUS loose ends in the story that the series never bothered to fix. The most glaring of which is obviously the Mystery of Chabil. It is simply unforgivable that the creators would be so sloppy as to completely forget about one of their characters. Sure the guy was a minor, throw-away character; but since he was basically Rune's love-interest, you should give him a notable exit. The least they could have done was give him a two-second death scene. He could've fallen off the assembling Eye of God pieces, died honorably defending Rune from the Cretarian soldiers, or got eaten by a mountain lion. SOMETHING.

I'm not even gonna get started on the IMPORTANT loose ends, the ones actually dealing with the main plot. Like where the hell the Eye of God came from, what the fuck happened with the Rebellion, just who or what Arjah is, what the mystery was behind Quawool/Kauru/Ifurita-stand-in's tribe, and why they were sent to stupid Creteria in the first place.

Oh well. I still thought Alternative World was better than El-Hazard 2 though, if mainly for the unintentional comedy.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: MrWhat on January 21, 2004, 09:07:56 pm
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So, if you could change something about "The Alternative World" what would it be?  

Hoo boy  ::)

Alt World got some things right, at least, for me.  I've learned to enjoy Alt World by ignoring the story, and concentrating on the characters.  Alt World didn't get all the characters right, but most of them are actually very well written, I think.  Kauru contrasts with Miz, Afura and Shayla nicely.  Fatora is somewhat redeemed as a capable and caring girl (before episode 13, anyway).  And poor Nanami has some truly heart-rending angsty scenes.

I don't have a problem with the basic premise of the story.  Yes, most of the planet of El-Hazard hasn't been explored.  The gang has never left the area near the Great Holy River.  But they had just gone on a field trip in OVA2.  And it makes sense that Makoto would accidentally trigger another dimensional trip while he was working with relics, trying to rescue Ifurita.

But I'd still change a lot.

Either get the continuity and time-line right, or ignore it.  Alt World is supposed to take place One Year Later.  But I've argued before that this can't be right.  Makoto's research would be further along after a year, and Kauru would have been selected much sooner than that, among many other things.

Drop most of the Unsolved Mystery around Kauru.  It isn't needed.  Find another way for Makoto to rescue her from the river, and just let her be a talented priestess and a good little girl.

Drop any hints of an implied Makoto-Kauru romance.  Make it clear that Kauru loves Makoto like a brother.  Her sisterly love makes for better comedy with Nanami and Shayla than if she's just another girl in the harem, and Makoto can remain completely faithful to Ifurita.

Drop Arjah.  Makoto accidentally sends everyone to Creteria by himself, with a failed experiment. Or maybe rewrite Arjah as a human Creterian scientist, who accidentally kidnaps the gang while he's trying to repair the Spring of Life.  He could work as an evil Schtalubaugh type character.

Drop the Creterian Eye of God.  The Spring of Life can still be a part of something bigger, or it can be Makoto's challenge all by itself.

Develop the unique "relationship" between Jinnai and Deva.  As it is, it cuts directly from Deva accepting an unintended proposal, to Deva more or less raping Jinnai in episode 13.  Ick.  Write in some more subtle romantic comedy there, before Jinnai goes to Creteria.  Maybe Deva even goes to Creteria with him, and she keeps trying to distract him and seduce him, or he gets to be a hero and rescue her, or something.

Completely rewrite the Shayla and Jinnai plot thread, from when Shayla is trapped in the stupid giant ping pong ball (as if she'd stand still long enough to be trapped), to when she finds Makoto and Kauru.  Keep the chase going.  Instead of being trapped by the Creterian Bugrom, Shayla and Jinnai have to work together to avoid capture.  Maybe they both try to hide in a busy Bugrom hive, in a wacky kind of way.  Keep the evil flesh-eating Creterian Deva, but don't stretch that joke out for several episodes.  Shayla can have a fan-servicey bath scene, but not in a Bugrom egg pond-- she wouldn't be stupid enough to do that, either.

Develop the implied conflict with Volcania.  Develop political intrigue with Gilda.  Write Jinnai into the conflict-- he's a brilliant political and military strategist.  He escapes Shayla and the Creterian Bugrom more quickly, and then he goes to work for Gilda, or for Volcania.

Drop Dall's stupid infatuation with Kauru.  And don't suddenly change Dall into another character half-way through the story.  Either Dall remains a clueless pretty-boy weenie, or he's a troubled man, drinking to drown his sorrows, from the beginning.

Don't split up Afura and Shayla for practically the whole story.  They're both good by themselves, but they're much better when they're playing against each other.

Give Fujisawa more to do.  Don't strand him on the farm with Miz the whole time.  The poor guy doesn't even get to do any drinking.

Rewrite Miz.  That's one characterization that Alt World didn't get right.  She can still be a clingy and domineering wife, but she should still be a sympathetic character too.  She comes off as a foul-tempered shrew, mostly.

Develop some Afura angst, after she gets fed up with Miz and Fujisawa and flies away from them.  Maybe give her a nice angsty scene by herself, sitting in the tree, wondering what she's doing with her life, and why she's alone now.  Heck, give her a Creterian love interest too.

Nanami is tricky.  Her Alt World angst has come to be one of my favorite bits.  But still, maybe she could have a bigger part in the story.  Instead of opening another restaurant, maybe she becomes Makoto's full-time assistant.  Maybe her trip to Creteria gives her another dimensional ability, or maybe her gift of seeing through illusions has another use in the Spring of Life.

And the biggie-- what the heck happened to Chabil?  For that matter, what the heck happened to Rune?  Rune is angst personified in OVA1, and yet she isn't shown longing for Chabil after she returns to El-Hazard.  A final scene like that could be a beautifully bittersweet ending.

That's enough  :P
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Saucer on January 21, 2004, 11:40:03 pm
First of all, the complete and utter lack of this character would be the first thing I'd change!
<------------------------------------------

Otherwise, I don't think I could sum it up any better than MrWhat. Arujah was pretty stupid and a lame way of motivating the story. I say, ditch him! And Chabil, the poor guy (good one LGJ!). You know, I never really thought about it too deeply. Especially since the last time I actually watched Alt World was 1998 or '99, when it was still new. I eagerly devoured it since it was a new El Hazard anime. But in hindsight........ gawd it really sucks doesn't it?
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on January 22, 2004, 12:14:27 am
Unfortunately, yes it does, Saucer.  That's one of those vices of mine; eventually, once I get passed all this silly GBA programming business with Sv4, I'd love to develop an El-Hazard thing.  But as I've been warned, I shouldn't rewrite AW or anything else.  Basically, take it as it comes.  Such a shame MrWhat makes a much more appealing story to work with for the most part.  But that's okay... I dunno if I'd want to fix AW so much as ignore it.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Lord God Jinnai on January 22, 2004, 12:53:06 am
To me, El Hazard 2 and Alt World are the El-Hazard equivalents of Dragon Ball GT. I like to tell myself that they aren't part of the original canon, just so I don't end up killing mass amounts of people because of Massive Anger Build-up. (MAB)

Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on January 22, 2004, 01:03:16 am
Well, I guess technically you can deny them that, seeing as ol' Hayashi had nothing to do with them, essentially...

I dunno, though.  I guess that reminds me of one time when my mom mentioned to my brother that the news story that was on TV at the moment was upsetting to her.  So my brother says, "So, turn it off."  My dad retorts sarcastically, "Yeah, that'll make it go away."

Basically, it looks like the later parts of El-Hazard were on a expontial downward curve and we're sort of stuck with those repercussions.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Kathy Guinea on January 22, 2004, 03:43:04 am
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I guess that reminds me of one time when my mom mentioned to my brother that the news story that was on TV at the moment was upsetting to her.  So my brother says, "So, turn it off."  My dad retorts sarcastically, "Yeah, that'll make it go away."


Wow I'm kinda sorry I missed that ^^; That is such a dad line. I am amused now^^;

Sorry I have little to say about this topic that hasn't been said yet :p

Cept with Dahl... Mr. What said he shouldn't have changed personalities in the middle of the story. But maybe all that eccentricness was his way of dealing with his angst so he wasn't just drinking away his sorrow all the time.

Maybe he really was serious and deep all along but he liked to play the clown cos that got him more attention? Hell I do this all the time! Some of my best eccentric moments are when I feel like crap on the inside but I just want people to notice me.  So I'm not sure it was a complete change in personality so much as maybe some kind of coping mechanism...

Sometimes Dahl reminds me of Captain Tylor. 99% of the time Tylor is a complete freak. But every now and then he says something really profound and leaves you guessing if he really does just have incredible luck or if he DID have some grand master plan.  

Well anyhow, I think Dahl's turn around is feasible.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: rowan_a._seven on January 24, 2004, 01:57:27 pm
Yeah, I agree about Dall.  Even if his turnaround in personality is implausible (which I don't consider it to be), I was pleased by it simply because I thought his playboy persona was very aggravating and boring.  Then he became a brooding drunk which I found to be interesting.  ^^;
Personally, I think the characters who made out best in "The Alternative World" are Dall, Gilda, and Nanami.  Rune had her moments early on, but the unresolved Chabil plot is quite frustrating.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: MrWhat on January 24, 2004, 04:50:14 pm
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Well anyhow, I think Dahl's turn around is feasible.

That's fair.  When I think of it again, I don't really have a problem with the change itself.  It's how suddenly the change was made, and how drastic the change was, that I don't like.  I'll still say it could have been written out better.

But when I become a multi-billionaire, and I commission the Director's Cut re-make of The Alternative World, I'll be sure to leave that part in there  ;D
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Lord God Jinnai on January 24, 2004, 05:02:19 pm
Hopefully you'll also take out that horrendous 13th episode and kill whoever wrote it.

Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Wayne on January 24, 2004, 05:45:31 pm
Exactly. If you're going to have an episode of pure, shameless fanservice, you at least make the art look good!

...oh wait. *coughs* I mean, we should've had a thorough conclusionary episode to try to tie up some of the loose threads (many already mentioned). Of course.  ^^;
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on January 24, 2004, 05:57:48 pm
Again I will take this opportunity to question -- how did three girls get molested individually by only two others?
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: d.t. on January 24, 2004, 08:28:45 pm
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Hopefully you'll also take out that horrendous 13th episode and kill whoever wrote it.



Wait wait wait wait wait.  *Blinks in confusion.*  You're saying that thing was written?  I find that a little hard to believe.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Wayne on January 24, 2004, 09:12:45 pm
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Wait wait wait wait wait.  *Blinks in confusion.*  You're saying that thing was written?  I find that a little hard to believe.


Well, it was written by somebody. Stories (even really, really bad ones) don't spring up on their own. (Which is unfortunate, as I and some of our other writers can attest. :[ )

...of course, we don't know what they were doing when they wrote it ("Hey, boss, this stuff is terrible! It demeans what little credibility El Hazard had left after the last twelve episodes and is needlessly pandering!" "*puff* Mmm, that's some powerful stuff. ...were you saying something, rookie?" "*sigh* Lame humor and naked anime chicks it is. Hey, it's worked before...").
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: mark_engels on January 24, 2004, 09:26:34 pm
After reading Mr. What's scintillating and detailed analysis of TAW, I felt compelled to posit:

http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~kenwolfe/fanfic.html

If you read the Earth, Reunited and Rough Justice story arcs, you might find an enjoyable "alternative" to the disgraces to the franchise OVA2 and TAW.  

And, yes Saucer, Ifurita is prominently featured in all of them (as well she ought be.)

--me

Mark Engels

Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Lord God Jinnai on January 25, 2004, 11:38:45 am
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Wait wait wait wait wait.  *Blinks in confusion.*  You're saying that thing was written?  I find that a little hard to believe.



When I say "written," I mean it in the metaphorical sense.

Everyone knows Episode 13 of Alternative World's script was constructed by writing down the results of a blindfolded intern randomly pointing out words from a phone book.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Saucer on January 25, 2004, 05:48:40 pm
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When I say "written," I mean it in the metaphorical sense.

Everyone knows Episode 13 of Alternative World's script was constructed by writing down the results of a blindfolded intern randomly pointing out words from a phone book.

I just figured the Continuity Checker collapsed from overwork. So the director, having just come back from Comike with a stack of El-Hazard doujinshi (strictly for "reference purposes" of course), pulled out a story at random and......
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: dooky on January 27, 2004, 07:44:38 am
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Again I will take this opportunity to question -- how did three girls get molested individually by only two others?


Hey now, this is Alielle and Fatora we're talking about here. Are you doubting their abilities?

Incidentally, at the weekend our anime club screened El-Hazard OAV1, OAV2 and Alternative World across two days. And while it was generally agreed that Alternative World was weaker, nobody hated it. It seems to me that the more you love El-Hazard, the more fault you'll find with its sequels... because, I suppose, it hurts to see something you love decline to such an extent. But going on the views of others, I'd have to argue that Alternative World isn't terrible- it's just not up to the standard. And let's not forget that Alternative World gave us some good things, such as:

Makoto making actual progress with the Eye of God
Some fantastic Jinnai moments
More Fatora
Gilda (yum)
Qawoor
Parnasse (what? I liked him)

As a fanfic writer, I simply regarded the plot holes of Alternative World as a challenge. Ignoring it is the coward's way out... ^_~

dooky
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on January 27, 2004, 03:58:26 pm
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Makoto making actual progress with the Eye of God
Some fantastic Jinnai moments
More Fatora


Easily agreeable.  The Jinnai/Shayla dynamics were awesome.  Definitely a memory.  Fatora and Jinnai towards the end for a moment was kind of fun too.


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Gilda (yum)


Hmm.  I remember my sister saying she at least was all angsty and depressed to past love like Gilda, so she understood her or something to that extent.  :P


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Qawoor


Wooooor.  Woooooooooor.  Woooooeeeee....

They still pronounce it "wool" in the English dub.  But since they failed to update it on the packaging, everyone defaults to the Engrish spelling.  Same with "Arjah".  They say "Allujah" in English, and to back up my spelling, there's a city in the middle east that has appeared a few times on the news "Fallujah", pronounced just like that -- "Fah Loo Jah".  :P

As for the character herself... she still needs work.  She's a bit too plain and that potential Makoto love interest suspected by the other girls, though she never really expressed it, needs to have water dumped on it immediately.


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Parnasse (what? I liked him)


There's another one.  "Parn-Ass".  Going again by English dubbing, it needs an "o" in there someplace.  ;p

I liked him too, though.  He's like ... well, Alielle, but he seems to have a bit more brain.  Not that I'm putting Alielle down, I'm just saying it's different and interesting.


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As a fanfic writer, I simply regarded the plot holes of Alternative World as a challenge. Ignoring it is the coward's way out... ^_~


Yes, I suppose so.  :P

And it's true, AW isn't overall "horrible", I'll go for "not up to standard."
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Wayne on January 27, 2004, 04:14:47 pm
Eh, I guess it's a matter of taste. I'm not a huge anime fan (I've only watched through about two dozen series, out of the hundreds out there), but The Alternative World was one of the worst I can remember seeing... I personally rank it lower than Tenchi in Tokyo/Shin Tenchi Muyo (and yes, in my opinion, it is that bad).

If TAW had, say; actual plot consistency, better artwork (*shudders*), fewer ridiculous elements (Jinnai gaining 200 pounds in less than a week? Right...)... and even fewer ridiculous plot devices, then maybe I could rate it mediocre. :D Kidding. But TAW has so many strikes against it I just can't like it. The fact it follows TMW, which is [arguably, but not by me :]] one of the best anime series of all time, makes it look even worse.

Wanderers I can at least respect as a sort of internal parody; it wasn't as good, but it was funny in places, and they did expand on the characters and sidestories (the big advantage long-running TV series have over numbered OAVs).

And regarding fan fiction... heh, yeah; some good stories can make up for a myriad of wrongs. *chuckles* It's really not the same, though (even though there are some very talented writers out there... I've read a bunch of Mr. What's stuff on FFN; and much of it's amazing).
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: rowan_a._seven on January 28, 2004, 10:23:25 pm
Actually, I thought the second half of "Tenchi in Tokyo" was actually...somewhat decent, at least compared to what came before.  Still, as for TAW, it was very uneven in terms of quality (in my opinion), but it did have two great moments that stand out in my mind.  The first is when Fatora 'meets' Parnasse.  That scene was delightfully ironic, and Rune's reaction was priceless.  The second is Arjah (or however one spells his name) tempting Makoto.  I found that scene to be surprisingly emotional and riveting.  

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As a fanfic writer, I simply regarded the plot holes of Alternative World as a challenge. Ignoring it is the coward's way out... ^_~


And TAW does provide some additional story and content to work with, so it does have its uses.

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Easily agreeable.  The Jinnai/Shayla dynamics were awesome.


Hm...perhaps in the beginning, although Shayla's willingness to fry Jinnai repeatedly despite the dangers of their situation irritated me slightly.  Their scenes together are one of the things I wish TAW had developed a bit more.

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(Jinnai gaining 200 pounds in less than a week? Right...)...


Personally, I rationalize _that_ entire plot thread by believing that the food was drugged.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: MrWhat on January 29, 2004, 08:28:08 pm
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I personally rank it lower than Tenchi in Tokyo/Shin Tenchi Muyo (and yes, in my opinion, it is that bad).

I think The Alt World is a slightly below average series; the critical darling Excel Saga was way over-rated, wildly uneven and a poor series overall; and the often-hated Tenchi In Tokyo was quite good.  So, who wants to shoot me first?

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I've read a bunch of Mr. What's stuff on FFN; and much of it's amazing.

Thanks for the kind words.  A little more to come soon, hopefully.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Lord God Jinnai on January 29, 2004, 09:17:51 pm
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ISo, who wants to shoot me first?


Do you even have to ask?

::loads Howitzer::
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Wayne on January 29, 2004, 10:53:34 pm
Nah, wouldn't shoot you or anything. *chuckles* I agree about Excel Saga, actually-- I've seen about half of it (scattered episodes), and the only parts I liked were with Nabeshin (who was just so bizarre he's hard not to like). Beyond that... some people like that sort of insanity/inanity, but it's not my cup of tea.

I can knife you in the ribs or something for liking Shin Tenchi Muyo!, though, if you're still interested. :]

(Seriously; I'm glad to hear you're thinking about picking the pen as it were back up. I used to write a fair bit-- Final Fantasy Tactics was the biggest project; I finished a 20-chapter work just over 100K words for the first "chapter" of the game, and plenty of online stuff since then... but it's not something I've been able to keep up with, for various reasons; and I'm sure you can relate to that, being that much older than I am. *chuckles* It's a shame when people aren't able to put their talents to good use, for whatever reason; and I'm looking forward to more (a wee bit lighter on the angst, though; if you handle requests-- life is depressing enough as it is ;D).
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Kathy Guinea on January 29, 2004, 11:48:09 pm
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Hmm.  I remember my sister saying she at least was all angsty and depressed to past love like Gilda, so she understood her or something to that extent.  :P


Yes, I like Gilda. I respect her. She is bitter, bitter and alone... like me. And she doesn't take crap from anyone... except for the man that wronged her so very badly... DAMN YOU DAHL! If you weren't so eccentric I'd hate yoooooooou!


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There's another one.  "Parn-Ass".  Going again by English dubbing, it needs an "o" in there someplace.  ;p


Heh yes Parn is an ass... oh wait... we aren't talking about Record of Lodoss War...

I like Parnasse ^^ He's cool! (if you spell it with an "e" it's not so bad)  ^^;
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Spanner on January 30, 2004, 07:49:22 am
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Heh yes Parn is an ass... oh wait... we aren't talking about Record of Lodoss War...

*Chuckles* My sister and I enjoyed rooting out all kinds of homosexual subtexts in the relationship between Parn and King Kasshu. We just about fell out of our chairs laughing when, during Parn's sword training, Kasshu bellowed, "THRUST WITH THE HIPS!!!"

Erm, but yeah, Alternative World. I don't think there's much I can add that hasn't already been said. I've found that I tend to be a little more sympathetic to Qawool's character than some fans, but certainly admit that she could stand some improvement. The girl needs a little more backbone - it's frankly astonishing that someone with so little self-confidence managed to "graduate at the top of her class from the seminary". *Sigh* I guess they just wanted to create another vastly powerful character that, for some reason, requires Makoto to protect and nurture her...
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: rowan_a._seven on January 30, 2004, 04:11:46 pm
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I think The Alt World is a slightly below average series; the critical darling Excel Saga was way over-rated, wildly uneven and a poor series overall; and the often-hated Tenchi In Tokyo was quite good.


I can understand your views on TAW and Excel Saga, but TiT?  While I will agree that the show isn't a total loss and that the second half is actually somewhat decent with a share of good moments, I hesitate to call that series 'quite good'.  However, it would probably be quite refreshing to hear somebody say something positive about it so...care to explain your reasoning?

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So, who wants to shoot me first?


Oh, I think shooting you can wait until the round robin is finally finished...in other words, you should be safe for a _very_ long time.  ^_^V
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: MrWhat on January 30, 2004, 09:37:26 pm
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some people like that sort of insanity/inanity, but it's not my cup of tea.

I love inanity, as everyone knows by now.  But I (very generally) don't like dark comedies with unlikeable characters, and ES was too close to something like that, for me.

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It's a shame when people aren't able to put their talents to good use, for whatever reason;

I have a Friday night off at my apartment, and I feel the need to vent.

Earlier today, I was working on a serial fan-fiction chapter, saved as a text file on a floppy disk.  I had a backup copy on the home computer hard drive.

So I added a few hundred words to the floppy disk copy, then tried to copy it to the hard drive.  Windows XP deleted the backup hard drive copy, then failed to read the floppy disk copy.  Can't undelete the hard drive copy.  Can't recover the floppy disk copy.  So, I just lost about 1200 words forever.

I should be able to rewrite it yet tonight.  But if I didn't have such a large backlog of rough ideas in my head, I'd just quit for a few more months.  Arrgh.

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(a wee bit lighter on the angst, though; if you handle requests-- life is depressing enough as it is ;D).

Well, you might want to sit out the rest of my current EH serial, or take it in small doses.  I have three updates left on that thing, and the next two updates are dark and darker.  I'm still not sure why I write things like that, myself, but that's how it's coming out.

FWIW, my next El-Hazard serial will be a very silly Afura-Shayla-Kauru road trip comedy.  (At one point, Afura and Shayla are abducted by aliens.)  There should be plenty of gratuitous fan service too.

And I need to try to knock out a few more short and silly stories, pretty soon.  If nothing else, I asked for permission from Dooky to use one of his original characters, something like a year and a half ago, and I still need to write that idea out.

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I like Parnasse ^^ He's cool!

I love talking about long-term plans that might never come together.  My fourth or fifth El-Hazard serial (I haven't decided which one to do first) will star Parnasse.  That's right, a novel-length fan fiction starring Parnasse Relryle.  I obviously need professional help.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: MrWhat on January 30, 2004, 09:47:18 pm
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care to explain your reasoning?

What, you actually expect me to defend an unpopular and controversial opinion?

Okay.  Here's what I liked about In Tokyo, off the top of my head:

Tenchi hisself.  I like him better here than anywhere else I've seen him (OVAs, Universe, movies).  He almost has an actual personality.  His two sidekicks are a lot of fun too.

Ryoko.  She's my girl, and she does it all here-- wacky harem girl, vicious space pirate, and angsty love interest.  And she does it in style.  Frankly, she's hot, in that long black clothing.  (Eric likes a blue-haired anime girl in long black clothing?  When has that happened before?)

Sasami.  I think I understand why most people like her better in the OVAs and Universe, with a deeper and more mature characterization.  But she's a lot more fun here, for me.

Ayeka.  I'm not a fan, except for using her as Ryoko's sparring partner.  But she does pretty well here, too.

Yugi.  The main antagonist is a bizarre and unimaginably powerful ten-year-old girl.  How cool is that?

The origin episode.  It makes more sense to me, to have all of them come to Earth at once, rather than one by one.  I also like Tenchi better as a (mostly) normal Earth boy, albeit with a special role, than as a guy who suddenly finds out that he's Juraian royalty.

The story itself.  It would have been better if they had had more filler episodes at the beginning, and waited to introduce Sayuka and Yugi until after the story was further along.  As it is, the story wears a little thin, for a 26-episode series.  But what 26-episode series doesn't have a few painful filler episodes?

The storytelling, and the pacing.  In Tokyo is just plain fun to watch.  The OVAs have too much damn untold back story, Universe is childishly slow and boring in places, and the movies take themselves too seriously.  In Tokyo isn't perfect, by any means, but overall, it comes together the best, for me.  At least, after the first viewing.

The SD bits.  Most people don't like them.  I liked them.  I don't know what else I can say about that.

The character designs, and the animation style in general.  Again, most people don't like it, but I like it.

And finally, add a few thousand bonus points for several cross-over appearances by a certain wacky high school teacher.

And here's what I didn't like:

Kiyone.  She was by far the worst part of In Tokyo for me.  They took a great straight-man character from Universe and RUINED her.  It just hurt to watch her, especially early on in the series.  As much as it pains me to say it, she probably shouldn't have been written into this continuity.

Mihoshi.  I'm not a fan, but her characterization didn't feel right here, either.

Washu.  She isn't done badly, but she doesn't seem to have much to do.

Katsuhito.  Same as Washu.

Sakuya.  It's probably impossible for me, as a 34-year-old guy, to have a fair and balanced opinion of her.  But she's way too cute.  Every time I heard her happy fun little BG music theme, I had to brace myself for more sickly sweet high school girl cuteness.  I don't really buy her romantic success with Tenchi.  Her part in the story was clever, but it didn't quite come together as effectively as it could have done, for me.  And at the same time, she wasn't really needed at all.  It's enough to take Tenchi away from the harem, and show them all drifting apart, without adding yet another girl to the harem.

The pink bunny rabbit mecha-Ryo-Ohki.  Yeah, whatever.

Anywho, it all adds up to a positive rating, for me.  I don't have plans for any major Tenchi fan fiction serials, but at this point, I'm storming for ideas in the In Tokyo continuity, just to be even more perverse.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Wayne on January 30, 2004, 10:45:39 pm
Interesting. There's no arguing with opinion, of course-- and that's a good thing. The Internet would be a most boring place if we all got along. *laughs*

My chief issue with STM (Shin Tenchi Muyo; you'll have to forgive me for not wanting to use "TiT" as an acronym, heh) is how they changed the characters so much from the OAVs (my favorite continuity). Kiyone, yes; was terrible. But most of them seemed extraneous-- besides Ryoko (who I never liked) and Sakuya (who I really didn't like), of course. Ayeka was my favorite character (Kiyone is now, but she's not in the OAVs)-- like Fatora, she's the Princess character who really is a snobbish... female at times; but she had a lot of depth. In STM (and less so in TU) they cut everything but her stereotypical qualities-- it's amusing, a little; to watch Ayeka in action, but it just feels like an insult after the OAVs. That's the biggest reason.

The secondary one would be the artwork-- again, no accounting for taste; but I hated it. Thirdly would be the plot. Years of trying to block it out have paid off, heh (I saw it in full on CN during its run in 2000-2001).

But anime is a medium where likely no two people will agree on everything-- there's just so much variety between series (even ones under the same name); and that's cool. It's fun to talk about, anyway.

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Can't undelete the hard drive copy.  Can't recover the floppy disk copy.  So, I just lost about 1200 words forever.

I should be able to rewrite it yet tonight.  But if I didn't have such a large backlog of rough ideas in my head, I'd just quit for a few more months.  Arrgh.


Gah, I know that all too well. :-/ Fortunately 1200 words isn't that long; and who knows-- maybe version 2 (or however many, heh) will be better, y'know?

Which tale are you referring to; the "dark" one? If you tagged it on FFN under "Angst" I probably haven't read it. *laughs* Seriously... I have nothing against dark, serious tales; at least within reason (something like the latter part of Evangelion, for example; is borderline anathema; while something like FFT, which is a rather dark story, is fine; because of how it's paced and presented); and in fact my own writing tends to lead in that direction. Life is bad, even in fantasy; and people that write realism tend to end up with [at least some] amounts of angst.

It's something to take in measured drinks, much like fine wine. Not something to wallow in. ;D

...hm. This is getting further and further removed from the topic. Um... Shayla has the best outfit in AW!  ^_^V

^^; [/font]
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: rowan_a._seven on January 31, 2004, 01:48:24 pm
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What, you actually expect me to defend an unpopular and controversial opinion?


Well, this forum would probably be somewhat boring if we all agreed on everything.  Besides, I like discussing anime series.

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His two sidekicks are a lot of fun too.


Well, I can't argue with that, and now that you mention it I actually find myself hoping that they have a cameo in "Tenchi GXP" (which I haven't seen yet) or even the 3rd OAV.

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Yugi.  The main antagonist is a bizarre and unimaginably powerful ten-year-old girl.  How cool is that?


Funny you should mention her since she probably is my favorite aspect of "Tenchi in Tokyo".  However, when I watched "Magical Project S" and "Pretty Sammy OAV" I realized that Yugi (http://www.jzcool.net/anime/tenchi/yugi.htm) and Pixy Misa (http://www.adpolice.net/image/anime/mps/Tm-022.jpg) bear a striking resemblance to one another.  They have similar powers (Love-Love Monsters = Spirits), personalities that have a lot in common (provided you consider Misao as part of Pixy Misa) and related goals (What Yugi and Misao both really want is a friend, and they both find/have one in Sasami).  The parallels between these two characters have led me to assume that they're doubles in the same sense that OAV Ryoko and TV Ryoko are.

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But what 26-episode series doesn't have a few painful filler episodes?


Well, "Noir" hasn't disappointed me yet...although certain episodes are somewhat painful to watch in a good, angsty way.  ^^;

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The storytelling, and the pacing.  In Tokyo is just plain fun to watch.


And here's why I have such mixed feelings about "TiT".  The first half of the series strongly aggravated me to the point where I was wondering why I even bothered to watch it.  The episodic plots (Yugi creates wacky monster and Tenchi & co. must defeat it) felt like a rehash of "Sailor Moon" and not in the amusing, "Magical Project S" sense, although there were a few highlights here and there.  However, about mid-way into "TiT" this began to change.  Yes, some of the childish, irritating elements still remained, but there was suddenly emotional depth and seriousness, particularly in regards to Ryoko.  The scene where she witnesses Tenchi and Sayuka kiss is probably one of my favorite moments in that series.  From that episode on the story began to pick up to the point where I was actually enjoying the show to some extent.  

And yes, Yugi is just plain cool. ^_^V

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...hm. This is getting further and further removed from the topic. Um... Shayla has the best outfit in AW!


I liked Gilda's choice of outfits, personally.  What's not to like about neat black armor?



Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Wayne on January 31, 2004, 02:05:39 pm
If I ever disliked you, Rowan-- and I don't think I do, but just in case-- you are officially redeemed. :D Magical Project S is probably my favorite Tenchi derivative, with Misa being my favorite character therein (although Ramia and Tsunami are great too; mostly because of the absolute incongruity between MPS/Pretty Sammy Tsunami and the OAV one).

Gilda was cool too, now that you mention it. I forgot to point out just how neat it was for a female soldier to actually dress like one.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Saucer on January 31, 2004, 11:42:45 pm
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and the often-hated Tenchi In Tokyo was quite good.  

Oh, thank you MrWhat. Thank you.... somebody finally understands  :bawl

SPACE POLICE POLICEMEN OWNZ J00!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Lord God Jinnai on February 01, 2004, 08:59:45 am
Damn. I don't think I have enough shells to take everyone out...

::sighs sadly next to his Howitzer::
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: MrWhat on February 01, 2004, 05:41:16 pm
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Which tale are you referring to; the "dark" one? If you tagged it on FFN under "Angst" I probably haven't read it.

I was thinking of Hana Ni Arashi, my current El-Hazard serial project.  Sorry, I try not to go on about about fan fiction here, as this doesn't seem to be a fan fiction oriented message board.  But when I do, I tend to assume that everyone knows what I'm talking about.

The chapter that I lost was from a (completely off-topic) Oh My Goddess! project.

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It's something to take in measured drinks, much like fine wine. Not something to wallow in.

I look at it differently, but the alcohol analogy works for me, too.  A little angst brings out the "flavor" of a story, like a good beer with your dinner.  But sometimes you feel like breaking out the big whiskey bottle of angst, and doing a few straight shots of the stuff too.

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Well, this forum would probably be somewhat boring if we all agreed on everything.

Sorry, the first line of my reply was meant to be a joke.  (I probably should have put a smiley there, but I'm suddenly trying to give up smileys.)  Of course, if I say Tenchi In Tokyo is quite good, I should expect to be called on it.

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Besides, I like discussing anime series.

Oh sure, me too.

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Magical Project S is probably my favorite Tenchi derivative

With those recommendations, I'm putting Magical Project S on my To Sample list.  A little late now, after Pixy Misa got kicked out of the Round Robin, but, better late than never.

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here's a blankie for you Ai Yori Aoshi fans.

Saucer brought this up in another thread-- but since we're talking about other series here-- Ai Yori Aoshi was recommended to me, since I'm an Oh My Goddess! fan.  I've sampled the first two episodes, and I'm still interested, but the feeling I got was, it has all the creepy submissive "instant girlfriend" content of OMG!, but little of the Bell-K1 romance.  And it was kinda cute, but there wasn't much comedy.  Can anyone say if this series changes in tone, in the later episodes?  Or does it just plain get better?
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: dooky on February 02, 2004, 08:50:10 am
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If nothing else, I asked for permission from Dooky to use one of his original characters, something like a year and a half ago, and I still need to write that idea out.


Did you? Oh, you almost certainly did, but I'm buggered if I can remember. Which character was it again? ^_^

By the way, I sort of agree with you over Excel Saga- I do like it, but it's nowhere near as good as everyone says it is.

Oh, and please write that Parnasse-related story! There really isn't enough Parnasse related fanfiction out there... ^_^
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on February 02, 2004, 12:32:55 pm
OT: *updates dooky's avatar URL*

Guess you missed the post.  Or didn't care.  :P
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: MrWhat on February 02, 2004, 09:06:28 pm
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Did you? Oh, you almost certainly did, but I'm buggered if I can remember. Which character was it again?

I wanted to use Formyka in another Fatora & Alielle parody spam-fic.  I just looked it up in my e-mail archives-- it was almost exactly a year ago, in January 2003.  And I was planning to write it in a month or two.  Yikes.

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Oh, and please write that Parnasse-related story! There really isn't enough Parnasse related fanfiction out there...

Someday...
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Saucer on February 04, 2004, 12:33:39 am
Quote

Saucer brought this up in another thread-- but since we're talking about other series here-- Ai Yori Aoshi was recommended to me, since I'm an Oh My Goddess! fan.  I've sampled the first two episodes, and I'm still interested, but the feeling I got was, it has all the creepy submissive "instant girlfriend" content of OMG!, but little of the Bell-K1 romance.  And it was kinda cute, but there wasn't much comedy.  Can anyone say if this series changes in tone, in the later episodes?  Or does it just plain get better?

It's on my list of "Things to see next." Friends' whose opinions I take seriously say it's a really great series!
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Spanner on February 04, 2004, 08:39:25 am
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It's on my list of "Things to see next." Friends' whose opinions I take seriously say it's a really great series!

Feh. It's the opinions of friends whose opinions I take seriously that led me to wade through the travesty they call Saber Marionette J. :P Everything I've read about the leading lady Aoi leads me to believe she's the submissive, "traditional" type of heroine that simply makes me want to want to claw my eyes out. I simply don't care HOW cute she is - if she's a doormat most of the time, I'm not gonna be able to sympathize with her.

No, unless I get a chance to see it for free, and it hooks me hard and fast, I'm probably gonna pass this one by.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: MrWhat on February 05, 2004, 10:43:04 pm
I can't say exactly why the submissive girlfriend thing bothers me in one title (Aoi Yori Aoshi), but not in other titles (SMJ and OMG!).  Maybe it's because SMJ and OMG! are less realistic titles with lots of wacky comedy, and a lot of other things going on, while AYA didn't seem to have much of a story besides the submissive girlfriend.

Anyway, I guess I'll go with Plan A, and sample a couple more episodes of AYA, and see if the story takes off.  If it doesn't grab me within four episodes, then it's probably a loss.

I do find others' opinions interesting, but I shouldn't ask for them, because they often don't help me very much.  The Tenchi In Tokyo thing has reinforced my belief that my tastes are somewhat peculiar.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Afura on May 30, 2004, 12:38:41 am
let me see, i like this because i need it more EL HAZARD!!!, but analyzing it, it could  be better.
I ll point some things that i did not like:

Time: How much time are they in this world, enough to put Jinnai fat, but not enough to let Shayla starve to death?. Miz, Fuji and Afura get there later, give rune time to fall in love?

Ifurita: ???

Qawoor: shes cute, everybody loves her, powerfull, no fun, and guess what she likes makoto, ahh!! come on!! I Dont like her.

Parnasse: why this character? Am i missing something or he is really useless

Dal: Schizophrenic!

Chabil: Came ON!!! THE PRINCESS IS IN LOVE!!! AND NOTHING HAPPENS!!!, KILL HIM MAKE US ALL CRY OR SEND HIM TO ROSHTARIA AND MAKE US HAPPY, BUT DO SOMETHING!!!!

Chapter 13 Rocks!!! it has no sense but it was really funny!!
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: dooky on June 01, 2004, 05:25:37 am
Parnasse is Alielle's younger brother in Alternative World.
On which subject... Mr What, will we be seeing that Parnasse story anytime soon? ^_~

dooky
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Afura on June 01, 2004, 03:52:14 pm
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Parnasse is Alielle's younger brother in Alternative World.
On which subject... Mr What, will we be seeing that Parnasse story anytime soon? ^_~

dooky


Yeah i know who he is, but i mean if he wasnt in the Anime it would be the same.
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: MrWhat on June 01, 2004, 08:05:32 pm
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Mr What, will we be seeing that Parnasse story anytime soon? ^_~

I wish I had better news.  But I still have to finish El-Hazard serial #2, and write serial #3 (the priestesses' wacky road trip) and serial #4 (an angst/horror fifth-Earthing story).  And if I have strong inspiration for TV-Ifurita's serial, I might have to bump Parnasse back to #6.

I may be relatively quiet on this message board for awhile.  Another real-life crap-fest impends, and as I type this, there's no end in sight.  (LGJ, now's your chance to move up to the #4 active poster (http://www.el-hazardonline.net/cgi-bin/ehol/YaBB.pl?board=;action=mltop)!)
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator) on June 01, 2004, 08:41:33 pm
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(LGJ, now's your chance to move up to the #4 active poster (http://www.el-hazardonline.net/cgi-bin/ehol/YaBB.pl?board=;action=mltop)!)


Wow, I finally achieved my rightful position of #1 I see.  ;P
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Spanner on June 02, 2004, 08:10:29 am
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Wow, I finally achieved my rightful position of #1 I see.  ;P

Holy cow! I never thought ANYONE would beat out Lar!

Lar, you're slipping! ;D

Hmm... I'm number seven. Not too shabby, if I do say so myself. ^_^V
Title: Re: Alternative World Alternatives
Post by: Lord God Jinnai on June 02, 2004, 01:54:25 pm
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(LGJ, now's your chance to move up to the #4 active poster (http://www.el-hazardonline.net/cgi-bin/ehol/YaBB.pl?board=;action=mltop)!)


I'm way ahead of you, Mr. What. Keep yer eyes out for the Spam deluge.

**starts looking for his can opener**