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Author Topic: "Sonikku!"  (Read 904 times)
dooky
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« on: June 28, 2004, 07:32:41 AM »

(end flashback to Mission Street)

I was a big fan of the Sonic games in my teenage years, and I've recently become reacquainted with the series via the Gamecube. Since I've noticed that there are one or two Sonic otaku here (I pick up on these things, you know ^_~) I was wondering... what does everyone think about Sonic's transtition to the 3D format?

I started out with SA2B, which I found incredibly difficult (still stuck on the final level of the Dark story). I've just acquired SADX and Heroes too, both of which seem slightly easier. I must say that the quasi-RPG format of SADX stumped me to begin with... and the fact that some of the characters had such short games was quite offputting. I'm the sort of person who doesn't like to complete a game too soon after buying it. On the other hand, the story parts of the game are spectacular... I really didn't expect to find a Sonic game based around an ancient mass genocide...

By comnparison, Heroes seems a bit shallow. Everything about it is extremely slick, and I'll probably enjoy it more as it gets harder, but it doesn't have the story of SADX or the variety of SA2B (while Rouge's later stages in that game had me swearing like a footballer, I feel a certain nostalgia for them now). The lack of a Japanese dialogue option is also frustrating... while I'm usually pro-dub, there is a total of two decent English voices amongst the entire Sonic cast.

I'm also slightly startled by the array of new characters that have arrived since my Megadrive days. I do vaguely remember reading about the Chaotix guys appearing in some 32X job, back in the days when Sega seemed to be releasing a new console every six months, and I think Amy was on the Mega CD, but the rest are new ones on me. Particularly Big the Cat, whose very existence seems to fill me with a strange sense of injustice.

Oh and one question- not really connected to the games, but one that I've been unable to find an answer to... What does SatAM stand for? (The only animated Sonic I've ever seen is that bizarre American version and a single episode of Sonic X, which I enjoyed quite a lot).

One more thing... one day, very soon... I will write a plausible Rouge/Tikal yuri fic ^_~

dooky
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2004, 08:16:30 AM »

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What does SatAM stand for? (The only animated Sonic I've ever seen is that bizarre American version and a single episode of Sonic X, which I enjoyed quite a lot).


Hah, how bizarre.  The SatAM fans are the ones that forced me back into working on Epoch again.

http://www.satamsonic.com/epochadvance/

... which I admit is what has kept me from putting a lot of time into the site.  :P  Kind of a cruel fate, but I really want to get it done.  I made leaps and bounds of progress in only 3 months, though, so hopefully it won't be much longer.  Oh, and the demo linked there has major sucky sound which has been fixed long since that demo, but no public release update has ever come about.  ^^;  
My sister suggests a do a Tiki Kiwi game and I was also thinking OS-tan would be cool since I'm all hooked on that now but ... major digress.   ^^;

SatAM is "Saturday Morning (AM as opposed to PM)", because that's when it aired, and the producers never gave it a special title other than simply "Sonic the Hedgehog."  (The other American cartoons of no plot relevance were "Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog" and "Sonic Underground", so they don't need weird short forms to be recognized.)


But as for Sonic -> 3D ... I never really liked it.  Personally Sonic had always been defined the way they did it on Genesis.  Maybe if "Sonic Adventure" and all these silly things that followed it hadn't decided to reinvent the characters to be "cool" and live on a planet populated by mostly humans (which turns them into huge animal freaks)... well, it just kinda become something completely different I think.  


Quote
... but the rest are new ones on me. Particularly Big the Cat, whose very existence seems to fill me with a strange sense of injustice.


He's new to SA.  That's about all I can say.  He's pretty unremarkable otherwise.
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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2004, 08:18:52 AM »

My sister really enjoyed Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, but I was never really able to get into it. In my mind, Sonic just doesn't work very well in 3D. Sonic was born to be a platformer hero. In a 3D world, there's just too many ways he can go flying off into an abyss, and that prompts the player to move slowly and cautiously - which is pretty much entirely contrary to the whole point of Sonic in the first place.

As for SatAM - I could be mistaken, but I believe that stands for Saturday AM, or Saturday morning. I'm guessing that it refers to the "bizarre American version" you mentioned.
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dooky
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2004, 09:59:48 AM »

Now that I think about it, the American version I remember was probablt "The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog". My overriding memory of that series is that Eggman/Robotnik had a pointy head. It was an interesting little series, but bore virtually no relation to the games other than the central characters.

In my opinion the transition to 3D has been problematic, but Heroes probably represents the best attempt to replicate the original style of play. I would still rate SA2B higher overall, since I preferred the idea of dedicated levels for specific characters: It meant that the Sonic/Shadow levels could be ridiculously fast, without having to make adaptations for the other characters. I still maintain that the difficulty level on the treasure hunting stages was set too high compared to everything else, but other than that it was an excellent game (although admittedly not what I expected from a Sonic game, having come straight from the Megadrive).

As for characters... well, I never really liked Sonic himself. He always seemed like a bit of a smartarse. Knuckles, I had a bit more time for... despite the fact that he was almost unbeliveably stupid, I kind of liked the guy.
I suppose the problem is that in this day and age, you have to give your game characters personalities. So whereas previously, Sonic and co were only very loosely defined as characters, these rather narrow definitions had to be filled out for the newer games, and weren't going to be to everyone's liking. But characterisation was never a problem for me- I became tolerant of Sonic's irritating attiude a long time ago ^_^

Likewise, I liked the idea of Sonic and co living amongst humans more than I disliked it: after all, Eggman was always human, so I never gave it much thought...

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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2004, 09:12:30 PM »

I was down with Sonic, being an old Sega devotee. But I was never as big a Sonic otaku as you guys.  ^^; I was more into walk n' punch games like Double Dragon and Streets of Rage. When I got my Dreamcast, I got a demo of SA1. It was kinda fun (graphics were cool), but nothing particularly special. I'll agree that platform-type games come off incredibly more complicated in the 3D enviorment and tend to get old real fast. I recall playing a demo of Toejam & Earl 3 sometime last year and going  -_-

Everyone else knocks it, but I actually enjoyed the Sonic anime OVA (released in the US by ADV Films as "Sonic the Movie"). Come on, it was some good harmless fun! Plus, having Miyuki Sanae (Hikaru from Rayearth, amongst other things) as Tails' seiyuu was a nice bonus. ^_^

Eggman is a pimp! (right Sarah?)
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2004, 11:03:06 PM »

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Now that I think about it, the American version I remember was probablt "The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog". My overriding memory of that series is that Eggman/Robotnik had a pointy head. It was an interesting little series, but bore virtually no relation to the games other than the central characters.


None of the American toons were exactly relevant to the games, but yeah, you sadly remember probably the "worst" of them.  :P  SatAM had a neat serious/dark theme going for it and was actually pretty true to a theme of the games -- nature versus technology.  In it's second season it also became epic, with an ultimate Doomsday plot that came to light.  Then right in its best moment it was canceled on a cliffhanger by a new president of ABC who decided it wasn't his type of project.

AoStH was really just a generic cartoon show that borrowed only the extreme basics from the Sonic franchise.  I.E.  It used the names of characters and a tiny, little bit of pick and choose from the games once in a while, like Sonic's spin, a special stage, chaos emeralds... though never any of those consistently.  That would be where pointy-head Robotnik comes from, who was nothing more than a generic/stupid cartoon villan with lame plots from extreme bizarre fantasy devices.

Oh well.  This topic just proves again that I have to get passed Epoch ASAP... the people I thought would like to see it get done have nothing but complaints about how I do things now  -_- (bunch of perfectionists) and my old fans are hard to come by.  Epoch should've been completed in its heyday some 2 years ago.  Of course, had Epoch not induced all the chaos in my life back in the day, this site and all you wonderful people wouldn't be around at this site which wouldn't exist.  ;)  (El-Hazard was my arrival interest when I tried to violently escape the Sonic fandom world.)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2004, 11:04:19 PM by rob_jinnai » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2004, 10:27:14 PM »

Ah, Sonic... 3D and Sonic just don't seem to mix. SA and SA2 were fun [I never played Sonic Heroes] but they just didn't compare to the classic side scrollers. I do have many fond memories of tackling Final Rush in SA2, or trying to figure out how to beat the Egg Viper in SA1, but they don't compare to racing Metal Sonic in Sonic CD or being Super/Hyper Sonic/Knuckles/Tails [Bring back Super Knuckles, Super Tails, and the Super Emeralds Sega!! Stop giving Sonic all the glory... Even though he is the main character. >> <<]
Even the Sonic Advance games seem to be lacking something. Maybe it's the character deisgns... I'll always prefer the Sonic 3 and Knuckles designs to any newer character models. Maybe I'm just picky.

I never saw SatAM. I have however read the Archie comic based off SatAM... And it is horrid.
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« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2004, 09:14:37 PM »

Dude, Sonic is teh pwnz0rz. *pumps fist aggressively*

I'm really behind the times, now, though. I remember the good ol' days of Genesis-era games and the SatAM cartoon... though truth be told, the comics were the first Sonic-related material I ever got into. I was damn hooked though, between those golden ages of 6 and 9. :D

But in this newfangled world of Sonic Adventure and 150-plus issues (I lost track after 120 or so)... it's so disorienting. I feel so old. *maudlin sigh*

And I still maintain that Robotnik/Snively is the most horrible pairing ever. LGJ's DBZ levels of wrongness can't even touch, y0.
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« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2004, 09:22:48 PM »

Feh, Sonic the Hedgehog. I prefer Mario.

*gets pummeled*
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Xel
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« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2004, 10:00:25 PM »

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Feh, Sonic the Hedgehog. I prefer Mario.

*gets pummeled*


>O Sonic ROCKS your bitch-ass, sir!

*cough*

Oh, it's good to be back.
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rowan_a._seven
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« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2004, 11:01:31 PM »

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In it's second season it also became epic, with an ultimate Doomsday plot that came to light.  Then right in its best moment it was canceled on a cliffhanger by a new president of ABC who decided it wasn't his type of project.


Heh, I still remember that moment and eagerly anticipating the next episode when the owner of those mysterious, sinister eyes would hopefully be revealed.  I was filled with excitement and wondering whether this new threat was Metal Sonic, Knuckles, or someone or something else altogether.  With a cliffhanger like that, the show's cancellation definitely upset me, although in retrospect I guess I'm glad the series went out on a high note.

Anyway, I was big fan of the Sonic games on the Sega Genesis and even purchased the surprisingly good (IMO) comic book series for a while.  On a whim I bought "Sonic Adventure DX" Wednesday and must say that so far it's utterly ridiculous with gameplay that makes it far too easy to fall off a cliff and die.  However, it is also strangely fun and, while I doubt it will have the replay value of past Sonic titles, I'm kind of looking forward to playing through this game.  Additionally, I've heard that "Sonic Adventure 2" and "Sonic Heroes" are supposed to be better, so, while I still have doubts concerning Sonic's leap into 3d, I also have hope that entertaining Sonic games will continue to be made.  Besides, I think there's still the Sonic Advance series on the Gameboy Advance for those of us who prefer the 2d format.

Quote
Knuckles, I had a bit more time for... despite the fact that he was almost unbeliveably stupid, I kind of liked the guy.


You and me both.  Why speed through levels when you can glide, climb, and smash your way to the ends instead?  He also received quite a lot of character development in the comic book series (up to the point where I stopped reading, at least) and is probably my favorite Sonic cast character, although what I've seen of Rouge so far looks to be quite fascinating.

Quote
Everyone else knocks it, but I actually enjoyed the Sonic anime OVA (released in the US by ADV Films as "Sonic the Movie"). Come on, it was some good harmless fun!


Granted, Metal Sonic was cool, but other than that I really didn't see a whole lot to like about the movie.  It didn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and instead of Princess Sally Acorn, Knothole, and the other Freedom Fighters it had..._that_ annoying girl.  Grrrr.

Quote
Likewise, I liked the idea of Sonic and co living amongst humans more than I disliked it: after all, Eggman was always human, so I never gave it much thought...


I'm with Rob on this one.  Being a big fan of the story developed in the SatAM and comic series, I'm finding walking around as two-legged, talking animals in a world populated by humans to be a bit...disconcerting.

Quote
[Bring back Super Knuckles, Super Tails, and the Super Emeralds Sega!!


Eh, the Super Emeralds seemed somewhat excessive to me, but I too would like to see Hyper Knuckles and Turbo Tails (?) again.  They were such fun to play as, and with Turbo Tails you could just stand still and let those birds attack for you if you wanted.
Quote
I have however read the Archie comic based off SatAM... And it is horrid.


I will agree that the early issues were, for the most part, less than spectacular, but the series did seem to get better as it went along, in my opinion, although it still had its fair share of hits and misses.  At any rate, I will give Archie credit for doing a Super Sonic vs. Hyper Knuckles installment and a Mecha Sonic vs. Mecha Knuckles issue.  
« Last Edit: July 02, 2004, 11:09:49 PM by rowan_a._seven » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2004, 07:41:44 AM »

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I will agree that the early issues were, for the most part, less than spectacular, but the series did seem to get better as it went along, in my opinion, although it still had its fair share of hits and misses.  At any rate, I will give Archie credit for doing a Super Sonic vs. Hyper Knuckles installment and a Mecha Sonic vs. Mecha Knuckles issue.  

And then they killed Eggman... And brought him back... And killed him again... And brought him back. And then Knuckles was all green and psycho. Then he died. Then Sonic went to another dimension, and Tails wasn't the real Tails but a different one... Yeah, it got f'ed beyond reason.

By the way, how come everything refers to him as Eggman nowadays? No one ever calls him Robotnik... Not even the games' instruction manuals.
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« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2004, 01:06:18 PM »

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By the way, how come everything refers to him as Eggman nowadays? No one ever calls him Robotnik... Not even the games' instruction manuals.


Way back in the day when Sonic was first concieved as the video game character, the Japanese thought it was a hoot to call the villian "Dr. Eggman", since his rotund belly made for a very nice egg shape.  I suppose the American departments thought it would come off too goofy, so the name was changed to a more sinister sounding "Dr. Robotnik".  It also gives a better clue to who he is and what he does.  I remember once reading that a last name is concidered very important in writing to defining a character.

Now, I know the change of calling him Eggman OR Robotnik in all things English came from the first Sonic Adventure.  I'm not sure why exactly the barrier that had always been there was torn down, but I'm going to guess it's because SA was the first to feature dialog, and Sonic uses the name "Eggman" in that dialog in a mocking sort of way.  Whoever was translating the dialog apparently decided that it was just a necessity to refer to him as Eggman, but of course not lose the Robotnik that typical ignorant American fans would expect.  Although American cartoons like AoStH would routinely refer to Robotnik using "egg" insults such as "Egg Belly", which proves that there were alternatives to just confusing us with the addition of the Eggman name.  In fairness, though, I think the Japanese may now be seasoned with the reverse -- Eggman and Robotnik.  I don't know that for sure, but I believe I did hear it.  It's just such a mess.

... now having said all that, I haven't bought a Sonic game since the Genesis days, and only played Sonic Adventure via illegal ISO.  Thus I haven't seen the modern manuals.  I do remember reading that "Eggman" went beyond just an insult phrase and into something more permanent by SA2, but do they really just not use "Robotnik" anymore, or is "Eggman" just more plentiful?

I know the Archie comic introduced an "Eggman" as a character, which was some alternate universe Robotnik who gained this great idea to put himself into some sort of biosuit and name himself Eggman.  Which would be the cheap shot excuse of why the style of the character would suddenly change from SatAM-esque Robotnik to Japanese anime, goofy large arms "Eggman" of the SA era.  And get to be called Eggman.  The "adaptions" were probably the worst thing to happen to Archie.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2004, 01:09:01 PM by rob_jinnai » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2004, 02:35:57 PM »

I stopped reading the comic book series shortly after the Endgame Saga(?), consequently missing most of what you described, and by the sound of it I'm actually kind of glad I stopped purchasing the series when I did.  Still, the comics were fun at times and did give the characters additional backstory (although in Knuckle's case it was an incredibly convoluted family history with powermad relatives leading a technology cult).  I think I saw him on the front cover of one of the comics too recently while I was skimming through a comic book rack, so Archie might've resurrected him as well.

On another note, I prefer Dr. Robotnik over Eggman, although I don't mind it when Sonic and friends call Dr. Robotnik "Eggman" since (at least in Sonic Adventure DX) it comes across as an attempt at being rude.
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« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2004, 05:08:44 PM »

I'm pretty sure Knuckles was brought back to life... I'll occasionally skim through the comic if I'm at a bookstore with nothing else to do.
The whole Tails thing was screwed beyond belief. Tails was supposed to be the "Chosen One" who could defeat the green Knuckles.
Then promptly got his ass kicked.
Someone [Tails' uncle or Knuckles' ancient relative ghost guy] said that Tails wasn't really Tails and that the REAL Tails was switched waaaay back in issue 56 or somewhere around there, when Sonic, Knuckles, and Tails went Super/Hyper/Turbo/Whatever.


Then it was never mentioned again as far as I know.

On the subject of the comics, anyone ever read the Knuckles comics? I have a few issues and they're actually pretty good. I've always preferred Knuckles over Sonic. And then they scrapped Knuckles' own comic and instead gave him 10 pages in the monthly Sonic comic. And then he turned green. And I believe I stated my opinions on the rest.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2004, 05:11:20 PM by anubimon » Logged

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