Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 18, 2017, 06:34:50 AM
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Forums are now for historical use only. Thanks for the memories years ago!

+  El-Hazard Online
|-+  General
| |-+  El-Hazard Online (Moderator: Icy EyeG)
| | |-+  A LOT of Jinnai-centric rambling ^^
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: A LOT of Jinnai-centric rambling ^^  (Read 654 times)
Xel
Demon God(ess)
*****
Posts: 176


now he dead from coke

AOL Instant Messenger - Hojosama
View Profile WWW Email
« on: June 25, 2003, 09:32:55 PM »

Erm... I'll just start by saying that I just REALLY had to get this off my chest... figured this was the ideal place to do it.

Also warning you all that this is slightly yaoi-tinged, based almost (well, at least when I mention specific events) entirely on The Wanderers, and will probably be the approximate length of a small book when I'm through-- a book filled from cover-to-cover with nonsensical theories and rantings at that. Oh, and of course, it's all entirely my decidedly twisted opinion. :P That said, here I go!

Yes, well. It's an undisputed fact that Jinnai is fairly obsessed with Makoto, right? Indeed. He HATES him with a passion. Some say... that when one feels this hatred with such an overwhelming intensity, it has a tendency to... blur the line between hate and a twisted sense of love.

At the very least, he loves the way Makoto makes him feel, in a sense-- the feelings it evokes in him become familiar, comfortable. Maybe a little addictive. No, I haven't experienced this firsthand or anything.  :-/

We're all familiar (or most of us, at least ^^) with episode 20, which deals with the rivalry between Nanami and Jinnai when the Bugrom start to love her more than they do him. And in this ep, we get some really kinda interesting glimpses into Jinnai's childhood...

From what we're shown, Jinnai really seems to resent Nanami a lot for her long-time popularity... and I kinda wonder how much of that has been misdirected towards Makoto. Whatever kind of inferiority complex Jinnai has (come on-- how else do you explain some of this motives? That and his power issues... No, the "he's just a nutcase" explanation doesn't cut it. :P), it really seems likely that his relationship with Nanami was just fuel to the fire... But the Jinnai/Nanami dynamic is a whole 'nother can of worms. There is one neat flashback that deals more with Makoto, though...

It looks as though Makoto and Jinnai were sort of... tentative friends in the beginning. In both the OAVs and Wanderers, Makoto seems to regard him as a friend, anyway...  :-/ but anyway. There's that scene where little Jinnai is lying in his room reading Tenchi (props go out to AIC for such a colossal plug XD) and then cute lil' Makoto yells "Jinnai-kun! Come play with me!" through his window. The way Jinnai decides to handle it is a fairly good indication of his mammoth ego at so early an age...  ;)  but on the way down, little Nanami-chan tackles and hugs Makoto and drags him off by the hand...

And lo and behold, our good buddy Jinnai looks utterly shocked and devastated when he comes outside and sees the two of them retreating into the distance. Now I ask you! If Jinnai hates Makoto so much, barring the aforementioned perversion of affection that I mentioned earlier, then WHY does that memory stand out in his mind when he thinks of all the things Nanami has taken from him...?  :o

An' I'm through. *snaps fingers*

... Wait, no I'm not.  ;D

It's sort of left up to interpretation whether or not Makoto dies/disappears to save El Hazard, isn't it? Sure, he comes back all winged-like to smooch Rune, but still... was that supposed to be symbolic or what?  :-/ Though I guess everyone seems to react when he "comes back", so... But that's not the point. >_<

Anyway, remember how the last scene in the Bugrom Empire shows Jinnai acting, well... like he normally does? And Diva says something about him getting back on his feet so soon after the near-end of the world, and he says something to the effect of "But it isn't the plan that's important, it's the way his face would look if he could hear me laughing!"

Iffy is sweeping the floors like she usually does and smiles to herself... and then says something like "It's nice to hear him so happy until he remembers."... Cue Jinnai with his maniacal (and sexy, sexy) laugh. Then he sags and looks all despondent-like.

If you wanna get overly dark about it, one might say that Jinnai falls deeper into insanity by the end of Wanderers-- he has devoted so much of himself to hating ("hating"  :P) Makoto that he's started to delude himself into believing that he isn't really gone at times... This is, of course, supposedly ALL he ever wanted throughout the series, so why so unhappy, Katsuhiko? ...I find it really rather sad, honestly.  :'(

... You're probably all completely assured of my madness now. I'll, um. Go hide under the table. Carry on.
Logged

Sexpot. Despot. Jinnai.
Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)
Administrator
Demon God(ess)
*****
Posts: 1562


EHOL Creator

View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2003, 10:03:06 PM »

I saw this topic name on the "most recent post" thing on the main page and instantly my mind clicked "It's gotta be Xel..."

Quote
There's that scene where little Jinnai is lying in his room reading Tenchi (props go out to AIC for such a colossal plug XD)


Indeed, although if we want to get technical about it, I think it would've been impossible.   Assuming El-Hazard always starts for our characters in 1995, Tenchi was produced in 1992 I think.  Jinnai looks a little young for that to be as late as '92.  But I could be wrong, I'm not familiar with Tenchi history.

Anyway... I think the imagery that they were trying to pull off with Makoto leaving and all the effects shown on everyone was supposed to show how Makoto had had an effect on ALL of their lives.  Essentially, Makoto had become a part of all of them.  Their greatest moments and feelings were conjured thanks to him.  (And I think the angel wings are just silly Japanese imagery that we'll never quite understand. :P  I think they're just expressive of what Makoto is to Rune or something.)  Rather than suggest necessarily that Jinnai had a love interest in Makoto or whatever by that memory of Nanami... perhaps rather we can deduce it actually was just trying to prove a point that Nanami stole all of his classmates at school (the "game" memory) and then that Nanami would also steal away his joy of torturing little Makoto, his nemesis from day 1.  Makoto is just for some reason totally oblivious to Jinnai's dark-heartedness.  Of course, yours is a unique look, and I certainly never mind a unique look.


Okay, but that's Wanderers.  We have to remember that Hayashi had nothing to DO with Wanderers.  I've gathered that the original OAV, Hayashi's only actual total involvement and creation, hinted that Makoto and Jinnai HAD been friends at some point in their lifetime.  Perhaps for a very long time.  

Dramas that came on the OAV soundtracks make it sound like Jinnai is proudly standing tall with Makoto, who seems to be giving warm introductions to him and everything else as he becomes class president.  (Keep in mind, I'm listening to these and I can't understand a word of Japanese, but I pick up audio clues.  :P)  And everything is going great until Makoto walked in on Jinnai doing some shady dealing with someone else.  (Ishijima?)  Makoto's surprised sounding reaction indicates to me that it was an accident, yet since Jinnai retaliated, he probably figured then that Makoto had deliberately eavesdropped on him.  (This is where the drama ends, too.)  Especially later when Makoto snitched.  That would be where Jinnai would build up his actual hatred and paranoia of Makoto, who ruined his reign.  "Why is he doing this to me!?" [since I thought he was my friend!]

But again, I'm not sure how reliable the dramas can be concidered as a source.  But they seem to be better backing for the "real" Makoto / Jinnai story than the Wanderers and their silly childhood memory stuff.  I do think the dramas hold more real value than the Wanderers, since there's potential Hayashi had something to do with those dramas and it's known he had little to do with The Wanderers.

I also like this image that seems to support my idea.  While the Alternative World series is only really as valid as The Wanderers for the same reason, it IS built on the OAV storyline, and here's an image from episode 2 that further supports my idea that Jinnai was once just a regular guy:


[click for large stock image]


Look at his face, the very normal eyes, the "thumbs up".  He looks like a guy you wanna know!  And right next to Makoto.  No crazy rivalries here!


Jinnai's rivlary with Makoto is probably just something horribly misdirected.  If Jinnai were to seriously sit down with Makoto and talk for five minutes and maybe cry a few more, he'd probably realize that the whole thing was a misunderstanding.  But he's probably long-out snapped already.

(Oh, and my props to the guy who me and my brother and sister have dubbed "Young Jay Leno" in the middle there XD)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2003, 10:09:32 PM by rob_jinnai » Logged

Dub vs. Sub, let's keep quiet about it.
Kathy Guinea
Demon God(ess)
*****
Posts: 323


Magnetman is attractive.

ICQ Messenger - 148429211 AOL Instant Messenger - Kathy+Guinea
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2003, 10:25:43 PM »

Quote
and here's an image from episode 2 that further supports my idea that Jinnai was once just a regular guy:


[click for large stock image]


Look at his face, the very normal eyes, the "thumbs up".  He looks like a guy you wanna know!  And right next to Makoto.  No crazy rivalries here!


I don't know... I think young Jay Leno there wants to start some shit! I'll bet HE is behind the Makoto Jinnai rivalry! MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Logged


Little Rock lights the way... or maybe he's just leading us to a firey death. Meh, either way...


Netto:
Xel
Demon God(ess)
*****
Posts: 176


now he dead from coke

AOL Instant Messenger - Hojosama
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2003, 11:03:34 PM »

Quote
I saw this topic name on the "most recent post" thing on the main page and instantly my mind clicked "It's gotta be Xel..."


Oh, you love me.  ;D

Quote
Rather than suggest necessarily that Jinnai had a love interest in Makoto or whatever by that memory of Nanami... perhaps rather we can deduce it actually was just trying to prove a point that Nanami stole all of his classmates at school (the "game" memory) and then that Nanami would also steal away his joy of torturing little Makoto, his nemesis from day 1.  Makoto is just for some reason totally oblivious to Jinnai's dark-heartedness.  Of course, yours is a unique look, and I certainly never mind a unique look.


Which is a good thing, seeing as you'll probably seeing MUCH more of it in the future. You just wait until I finish rewatching the OAVs, mister. >:3

Speaking of which, I'm scaring the living daylights out of myself with my trian of thought as I watch the second episode on the International Channel right now. First I giggled at Alielle's "You go, Sister!" to Shayla, which sounded like a "Hey sister, soul sister..." kinda thing. Which made me imagine the EH girls decked out and singing Moulin Rouge style.  :o

Um. Anyway...

Quote
Okay, but that's Wanderers.  We have to remember that Hayashi had nothing to DO with Wanderers.
 

This is true. Though I don't think that means it should be counted as any less legit than the OAV... *ducks flying objects* ^_^; Use the traditional fanfiction cop-out! "It's an alternate universe, so anything goes!". This one just happens to be an official alternate universe.  ;)

Quote
 (Keep in mind, I'm listening to these and I can't understand a word of Japanese, but I pick up audio clues.  :P)


Something tells me I need to become a contributor, and fast. x_x You wouldn't count my inane ramblings as a contribution, would you?

Quote
And everything is going great until Makoto walked in on Jinnai doing some shady dealing with someone else.  (Ishijima?)  Makoto's surprised sounding reaction indicates to me that it was an accident, yet since Jinnai retaliated, he probably figured then that Makoto had deliberately eavesdropped on him.  (This is where the drama ends, too.)  Especially later when Makoto snitched.  That would be where Jinnai would build up his actual hatred and paranoia of Makoto, who ruined his reign.  "Why is he doing this to me!?" [since I thought he was my friend!]


Further upset, of course, by the fact that for whatever inexplicable reason, Jinnai's got issues. Big ones. >_> But I'm beginning to think that maybe it's like Nny's character from Johnny the Homicidal Maniac. No one knows why he's insane. He just is. And we love him for it. (a cookie for whoever knows what the hell I'm talking about.  :P)

Quote
I do think the dramas hold more real value than the Wanderers, since there's potential Hayashi had something to do with those dramas and it's known he had little to do with The Wanderers.


Maybe I'll ask him someday. ^_^ My friend's ex, Jason, is actually, er... semi-buddies with him. No joke. They used to chat and stuff.  :o ...Methinks I should really get in touch with Jason. 9_9

Quote
I also like this image that seems to support my idea.  While the Alternative World series is only really as valid as The Wanderers for the same reason, it IS built on the OAV storyline, and here's an image from episode 2 that further supports my idea that Jinnai was once just a regular guy:


*jaw drops* Hoooly...! WHY did I never notice that before? That's, um... really neat. O_O *clicksave*

Quote
He looks like a guy you wanna know!


But I would wanna kn-- ah, you know it already.  ;D

Quote
Jinnai's rivlary with Makoto is probably just something horribly misdirected.  If Jinnai were to seriously sit down with Makoto and talk for five minutes and maybe cry a few more, he'd probably realize that the whole thing was a misunderstanding.  But he's probably long-out snapped already.


*has long since literally sunk to the floor in hysterical giggles* I smell a fic, by cracky... XDDD Or, alternately, I will kiss whoever writes such a thing. Mr. What, my friend, I'm looking at you especially.  :P

That'd be right out of an episode of Dr. Phil! *cracks up again*

Quote
(Oh, and my props to the guy who me and my brother and sister have dubbed "Young Jay Leno" in the middle there XD)


Whoa, it's true. ...Terrifying.
Logged

Sexpot. Despot. Jinnai.
Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)
Administrator
Demon God(ess)
*****
Posts: 1562


EHOL Creator

View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2003, 11:51:01 PM »

Quote
Something tells me I need to become a contributor, and fast. x_x You wouldn't count my inane ramblings as a contribution, would you?


Mm, maybe.  You're at least very knowledgable.  And you've been around that Yahoo thing long enough that Engels knows you well enough that he warned me ahead of time.  ;)  What the hell...
Logged

Dub vs. Sub, let's keep quiet about it.
Xel
Demon God(ess)
*****
Posts: 176


now he dead from coke

AOL Instant Messenger - Hojosama
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2003, 12:38:12 AM »

 :o GAH! I LOVE YOU!!

...okay, now back to your regularly-scheduled program. *zips off to play with the mp3s*  ;D
Logged

Sexpot. Despot. Jinnai.
Neil Lafrenais
Demon God(ess)
*****
Posts: 93


Lovely Runey

AOL Instant Messenger - Neil+Lafrenais
View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2003, 03:11:08 AM »

Ah, the old "Was Makoto friends with Jinnai once?" argument. Right, let's start off with a universe line up, and then I'll answer questions:

Original Animation Video universe (MW, MW2, AW): Could have once been a normal guy, yeah, but I bet he was one of those kids who liked to boss people around and liked to exercise power over the smallest things. You can imagine the guy being a "hall monitor" at some time in his younger life. That sort of thing.

Let's be clear on the fact that we don't know when Makoto and Jinnai exactly met in the OAV universe. In my opinion, this crosses out the goofy ideas of Makoto accidentally stealing Jinnai's ice cream and other such nonsense (thank god). If school in Japan is anything like it is over here and in the states, Makoto would have only met Jinnai in high school. And at this time, I'd say Jinnai was just starting to move up and up, in terms of power. The beginning of the obsession that would lead to being Bugrom General perhaps.

My general theory of the Makoto - Jinnai relationship is this: Makoto and Nanami hit it off easily, they become best friends over their years in high school; Nanami introduces Makoto to Jinnai; Jinnai, consumed with power, acknowledges him, but doesn't really consider him to be a friend, because at this stage in his life, he doesn't really have any friends and only really wants servants/subjects; Makoto, being the naive little thing he is, thinks Jinnai is his friend. You guys should know the rest of the story.

Wanderers universe: Well, it's all kinda laid out infront of you. No need for an explanation, I feel. Safe to say however, that I don't think it counts on any sort of OAV level [see Rob's Hayashi point].

Xel said...

Quote
[...] Jinnai's got issues. Big ones. >_> But I'm beginning to think that maybe it's like Nny's character from Johnny the Homicidal Maniac. No one knows why he's insane. He just is. And we love him for it. (a cookie for whoever knows what the hell I'm talking about.  )


[munches on cookie] Mmmm... that doesn't work. The thing with Nny is that he knows that he is insane and "the bad guy". He frequently says to victims, "at least, I'm under the dellusion of doing something productive" and other confusing contradictory stuff.  Jinnai doesn't know he is insane. He just thinks he's doing what's right, and is convinced that he should be an ultimate ruler and Makoto is the anti-christ. There is no "to-ing" and "fro-ing" with it, like with Nny.

Sorry for bringing this up, btw, those who have not read this fine graphic novel.

So, yeah, those are my feelings. I don't buy this "OMG JINNAI WAS MOLESTED AS A CHILD AND HAS ISSUES" buisness. Some people just have an aim in life, and Jinnai's aim is power. And because Makoto stopped that aim once and for all (seemingly), he was forever black listed on "Jinnai's enemy list".

Oh, and the picture... it's a picture. Even maniacs smile for pictures. ;)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2003, 03:12:13 AM by neil_lafrenais » Logged



Maximum boobage!!
Tim needs time to work it out
Administrator
Demon God(ess)
*****
Posts: 210


It will take time...

AOL Instant Messenger - TJSOnL1985
View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2003, 08:33:05 AM »

Here's my view on the whole Jinnai - Makoto relationship (via OAV):

From what I could understand in the Drama, Jinnai had a bit of trouble kicking off his campaign.  Makoto, though, pledged his support to him.  He could have also become the main reason why Jinnai won in the first place.  He had it all: power, support and respect.

That is, until Makoto walked in on his "meeting" with the baseball club president.  He knew everything then.  Why he won the election and how he got all of his votes and support.  Jinnai spotted him and chased him out of his room.

This soured the relationship between the two.  Jinnai couldn't trust Makoto with anything under fear that he could be trying to bring down his power.  Naturally, he made the list on "People to Keep Loose Contact With".

It was not until Nanami rubbed her nose into it that Jinnai realized that he has jumped off the deep end and that there was very little to fix the problem.  He had to get rid of the source.  Makoto had to go.

Thus, he becomes blinded with rage every time he sees Makoto.
Logged

I do not know who to blame more...

My crapola mouse that needs to double click on everything... except when I need it to...

Or the new and more "convenient" version of PowerDVD (which will NOT let you take a darn picture fo
Captain Southbird (EHOL Creator)
Administrator
Demon God(ess)
*****
Posts: 1562


EHOL Creator

View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2003, 09:04:08 AM »

I'd say that's potentially a correct summary there, Tim.  Either way, it required Makoto to believe Jinnai was "the guy" to get into office.  Probably it was based on more of Jinnai's political influences blinding Makoto (and Nanami initially?) to who he really was.

Quote
Oh, you love me.   ;D

Quote
:o GAH! I LOVE YOU!!


Well, then.  :P


Quote
Oh, and the picture... it's a picture. Even maniacs smile for pictures. ;)


Well, actually, even if your specific-detail story is the most accurate (I never really specified a time frame, and Fujisawa's presense indicates high school anyway), he could still be smiling and normal looking because everything is working the way it should in his favor.  I think he had a reason to smile whenever the image was taken.  It's just the overall look in his face.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2003, 09:07:07 AM by rob_jinnai » Logged

Dub vs. Sub, let's keep quiet about it.
Tim needs time to work it out
Administrator
Demon God(ess)
*****
Posts: 210


It will take time...

AOL Instant Messenger - TJSOnL1985
View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2003, 09:25:34 AM »

What better way to celebrate victory in office than going Mountain Climbing with Fujisawa?

Or it could be like a Promotion for Jinnai's Campaign.

"Vote Jinnai:"
"The man who strives for victory!"
Logged

I do not know who to blame more...

My crapola mouse that needs to double click on everything... except when I need it to...

Or the new and more "convenient" version of PowerDVD (which will NOT let you take a darn picture fo
Xel
Demon God(ess)
*****
Posts: 176


now he dead from coke

AOL Instant Messenger - Hojosama
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2003, 11:14:47 PM »

Quote
[munches on cookie] Mmmm... that doesn't work. The thing with Nny is that he knows that he is insane and "the bad guy". He frequently says to victims, "at least, I'm under the dellusion of doing something productive" and other confusing contradictory stuff.  Jinnai doesn't know he is insane. He just thinks he's doing what's right, and is convinced that he should be an ultimate ruler and Makoto is the anti-christ. There is no "to-ing" and "fro-ing" with it, like with Nny.


Oh, I wasn't trying to say that Jinnai and Nny were at all alike aside from the similar "we don't care what makes him insane and if we do, we shouldn't" sentiment. ^^ Believe me, the similarities stop there, IMO. o_o

...And I'm still waiting for someone to pick up the "tearful understanding" picture that Rob put in my head. Otherwise, I might just go and do it myself. And that would be CATACLYSMICALLY TERRIFYING.  :P
Logged

Sexpot. Despot. Jinnai.
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
 


Login with username, password and session length
Powered by SMF 2.0 RC1.2 | SMF © 2006–2009, Simple Machines LLC